Transition from long gun to pistol

This is a discussion on Transition from long gun to pistol within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The point of this thread is to talk about various means of transitioning form a long gun, to a handgun. Instead of listing several techniques ...

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Thread: Transition from long gun to pistol

  1. #1
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Transition from long gun to pistol

    The point of this thread is to talk about various means of transitioning form a long gun, to a handgun. Instead of listing several techniques and discussing pros and cons I would like to ask you about it instead.

    Several questions:
    1. Have you been exposed to methods of transitioning from a long gun to a handgun?
    2. What method/methods do you use and why?
    3. Do you practice transitioning and under what conditions?

    Feel free to analyze the pros and cons of methods that people on this forum use. I'm hoping that people will:

    1. Learn more about why and when to transition to another weapon.
    2. Learn methods for transitioning.
    3. Learn what method works for them and have a chance to analyze and reevaluate what they are doing. Even if that just means that they confirm that they are doing it the way they want to do it.


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  3. #2
    Member Array ktphotog's Avatar
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    Transitioning...

    I'm no expert by any means, nor have I a wall full of diplomas from the best shooting schools.

    But of all the examples i've seen, it basically comes down to ditching it as fast and unceremoniously as you can so that you can draw and present your sidearm with both hands.

    Whether the long gun is on a sling or not, just dump it. I know, the thought of dropping a custom Rem 1100 on the pavement is enough to bring tears to my eyes too. But we're talking life or death here. Use a blanket or quilt for practice at the range, but drop it!

    If you're going to use a 1 or 3 point sling make sure you can get to your sidearm with the long gun dangling where it wants to. You don't wanna be taking incoming when you realize a 3 point sling and a crossdraw tactical vest don't jive well!

    My $.02...

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    Member Array KSJustice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJake View Post
    Several questions:
    1. Have you been exposed to methods of transitioning from a long gun to a handgun?
    2. What method/methods do you use and why?
    3. Do you practice transitioning and under what conditions?
    I too am not an expert in this field but I do carry both an M4 and a M9 almost every day on the job.

    1. Yes.

    2. I'm a firm believer in the "train as you fight" philosophy. Because of this, I like to shoot with my sling on, the same posture I would be in should the need to shoot arise. You would be surprised how many shoot without their sling when training, sure it is more comfortable but it isn't realistic. Most of the time I use a "3 point" sling, one that goes around my body and allows me to either carry the weapon on my back when I need both hands or another position which allows the weapon to fall across my chest or to my side where I can present it quickly. Another favorite is the "1 point" sling. This sling attaches directly from the buttstock to my flak and allows the weapon to hang directly in front of me without having all of the extra straps to get tangled in. In both cases, my method of transition in the event of weapon malfunction is to just let the weapon fall. This works well for the 1 point sling but for the 3 point you will sometimes run into problems. The best way to keep from getting tangled in your pistol drop holster is to quickly guide (throw) the long gun to your back while drawing your sidearm. This is what works for me.

    I also have an Mforgery for home defense but it does not have a sling because I don't take it on patrol. If I had the same situation at home I would drop my baby like ktphotog said and go for the HK on my hip.

    3. All of my practice has been in the training environment. Full combat load standing and kneeling. Fortunately I have never had to practice this in real life.

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    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    According to this twit, you just throw your long gun away:

    YouTube - Elite Team Fighting

    -JT

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    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    They way they taught us in Blackwater was to use you non-firing hand to put the slinged long gun to your weak/reaction side, at the same time going for your pistol with your strong/shooting hand. Once the pistol leaves the holster, release the long gun and transition to your preferred shooting stance.

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    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    According to this twit, you just throw your long gun away:

    YouTube - Elite Team Fighting

    -JT
    That man is pure comedy gold. You should watch his other videos.

    Credit where it is due though, at least he practices the four rules of gun safety, so less chance of him shooting somebody accidently and making us all look bad.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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    OD*
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

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    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJake View Post
    1. Have you been exposed to methods of transitioning from a long gun to a handgun?
    2. What method/methods do you use and why?
    3. Do you practice transitioning and under what conditions?
    1. Yes
    2. What I was trained with.
    3. Yes - training conditions....

    In the civilian world there is an incredibly small chance that I will ever be in a situation where I will need to transition from a primary to a secondary. Chances that I will have both a long gun and a handgun on me at the same time are almost zero. If I was expecting to be in a gunfight, I just wouldn't go.

    If you need training on transitioning from long gun to handgun, I'm sure your department or service will provide it. It is quite simple - switch guns as fast as possible. First chance you get, fix whatever was wrong with the primary behind cover.

    So, in the context of this forum, I don't train transition drills because if I hear a bump in the night I don't put on a pistol rig and then grab my rifle - I just grab my rifle. If I'm out in town, all I'll have on me is my handgun(s), so it would never happen.

    For the sake of general knowledge though, when we trained for transition drills, it was a replacement for immediate action drills inside 25 yards. Outside 25 yards (roughly) we'd do immediate action on the primary, but if remedial action was necessary then find some cover - if there was no cover it would make sense to transition to a secondary if possible, because something is better than nothing.

    Austin

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    Great little animation OD.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Member Array Raider39a's Avatar
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    I am not some high speed, low drag dude. However, I have been taught not to throw your long arm away. If you have a malfunction, you can clear it when time allows for it later plus you don't want to arm your opponents with your long arm. if anything else, the long arm is a great pugil stick/club to use. I learned to use the sling and draw a sidearm; if no sling is attached, one can hold the long arm with the non-dominant hand, draw with the other hand. there seems to many ways to do this.
    "embrace the suck" - our warriors in the sandbox... it implies that do the best you can in impossible conditions.
    "no plan survives intact upon contact with the enemy" - wisdom of the Grunts.

  12. #11
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Great little animation OD.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  13. #12
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    I believe that you should retain the long gun. For many reasons, not arming the bad guy is the major one. Another reason is that a long gun dose provide some protection against incoming rounds. Not much, but some. At that moment I'd take all I can get.

  14. #13
    Member Array AgentX's Avatar
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    If you're carrying the long gun with a sling (as you should), you simultaneously guide it to slung position (in front, cross body with a 2-point, straight down with a 1-point) with the weak hand while drawing the sidearm with the strong hand. You should ideally be on target with a 2-hand grip established on the handgun when you begin firing, but you can start as soon as you've cleared the holster if necessary. Moving a gun to your back isn't something I've ever been trained to do. 1-point slings in front are convenient for vehicle operations, but you risk smacking yourself in the jewels if you have to move quickly with hands off the gun.

    If carrying a gun without a sling, which we do with shotguns on occasion, bring the long gun down on the weak side pointed in a safe direction and draw the pistol/fire with one hand.

    We train to transition to the pistol whenever your long gun goes "click" instead of "bang" and you're within 25m of a threat. Outside of that, seek cover if possible, move at the very least, and reload/perform immediate or remedial action to get back in the long range fight. As soon as there's a break in action, get the long gun running again.

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