A 30-30 ?

This is a discussion on A 30-30 ? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by laeckcrov How can a law like that work? No state I've ever lived in has required you to register your long arms... ...

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Thread: A 30-30 ?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeckcrov View Post
    How can a law like that work? No state I've ever lived in has required you to register your long arms... I could see how they could enforce handguns. Someone who can clear this up for me?
    At the time this idea was proposed, if you had over 10 guns, you would be declared having an "arsenal", and have to pay annual tax ($2000 if I remember correctly).
    Also you would be subject to random "inspections", FFL style, alledgedly to verify that the weapons were stored according to guidelines. You would have a certain time window to "register" your arsenal, after which you would be looking at a (federal) felony ...

    It was a long time ago, maybe some members here have a better memory than I do ???
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
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  3. #32
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    "I go by my reloading manuals. The Hornady has the 30-30 with one choice of bullet (round nose)at150gr weight. Max load lists velocity at 2300 fps. The 7.62x39 has 7 choices (.308) and 1 (.312) at 150 grains with a max velocity of 2800 fps!<-- That is as hot as a .308 or a 30-06 in 150 grains."

    I'm thinking that if Hornady was consulted they would own that as an error. The 7.62X39 is a cute little cartridge and very efficient but it simply can't gen up anything like 2800 fps with a 150 grain bullet.

    Could this actually be data for the 7.62X54 Russian? Velocities of 2800 fps would be appropriate for that cartridge.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    "I go by my reloading manuals. The Hornady has the 30-30 with one choice of bullet (round nose)at150gr weight. Max load lists velocity at 2300 fps. The 7.62x39 has 7 choices (.308) and 1 (.312) at 150 grains with a max velocity of 2800 fps!<-- That is as hot as a .308 or a 30-06 in 150 grains."

    I'm thinking that if Hornady was consulted they would own that as an error. The 7.62X39 is a cute little cartridge and very efficient but it simply can't gen up anything like 2800 fps with a 150 grain bullet.

    Could this actually be data for the 7.62X54 Russian? Velocities of 2800 fps would be appropriate for that cartridge.
    Yep you're right. I was as shocked as you that the number was that high. Turns out I was looking at the wrong data.

    CORRECT data from Lee and Hornady manuals is 2200 fps with 150 gr bullet for the 7.62x39. Plus you gain the down range advantage of using a spire point bullet over the flat or round nose ammo for the lever gun.

    Sorry folks about the error.

    Correct data on 7.62 x 39 at 2200 fps is nearly identical to the 30-30 at 2300 fps. The catch is that even though the 30-30 starts off 100fps faster it loses velocity faster due to the poor ballistic coeficient of the round or flat bullets. At 100 yds the 7.62x39 will retain more velocity and energy.
    Last edited by atctimmy; October 29th, 2008 at 10:49 PM.
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  5. #34
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    Don't get me wrong atctimmy. I'm a huge fan of the 7.62X39 cartridge. It's a very sensible round. I'd like to have a more accurate rifle in which to use it than the particular Russian SKS that I own. It'd be a great little white tail deer getter with hand loads out of one of these little bolt guns that are currently being imported. An accurate semi-auto 7.62X39 could be good medicine as well. I'd probably go ahead and use either the 125 grain .311 spitzers that several bullet makers provide or else the 150 grain flat nosed .30-30 bullet in order to insure reliable expansion and would limit shots to 150 yards or so. At anything more than short range I'd be concerned that the 150 grain spitzers would zip through without opening since they are generally tailored for use at higher velocities than either the 7.62X39 or the .30-30 can generate.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I really LIKE it around here...but have a question. The OP asked asked about our input regarding his deciding between; a .30-30 Winchester & a 9mm UZI carbine. He also provided a bit of intel about his Area of Operations & suggested there's a Social Shotgun in his near future. How did this wander into a caliber/ballistic comparison to the 7.62 x 39? Has there ever been a Winchester lever-gun or an UZI carbine in that caliber?

    As long as we're wandering, I suggest a thermal-imaging grid surrounding the property, a USMC Recon Unit outside the fence & a experienced IDF Battalion as Close Support to the house. Maybe coordinated with E-3 Sentry AWAC overhead.

    Barring that...the .30-30 would be my pick.
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  7. #36
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    Based solely on the OP, I would choose the Uzi. Compared to the 30-30, it offers increased round count, faster reloads and shorter length for maneuverability inside the home. In any situation where a much longer shot would be required and the 30-30 would become the favorite, there should be ample time to make that decision and grab the long range gun.

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  8. #37
    Member Array rmxer85's Avatar
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    I use a 30-30 for home defense and "strange noise in the night" type applications. The reason being that I get a lot of "Noise in the night" stuff i gotta go check out. 9 times outa 10 it's a racoon knocking somthing over, or coyotes pestering my dogs, or other assorted animals.

    So the trusty 30-30 it is. Why? It's faster on target than my hunting rifles, it's usually dark (scoped guns are all but usesless), and it can put a lot of lead out if tonight happens to be that "10th" time when it's NOT a racoon.

    BTW though, I am currently in proccess of replacing Mr. Win. with an AR-15. why?........because i can?
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    replacing Mr. Win. with an AR-15. why?........because i can?
    Best get your AR (at least the lower) while the gettin's good (immediately). Thinking about it...the .30-30 may soon be among the Forbidden Fruit. Whoops! Sorry for the distraction...now back to our regular programming.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    I really LIKE it around here...but have a question. The OP asked asked about our input regarding his deciding between; a .30-30 Winchester & a 9mm UZI carbine. He also provided a bit of intel about his Area of Operations & suggested there's a Social Shotgun in his near future. How did this wander into a caliber/ballistic comparison to the 7.62 x 39? Has there ever been a Winchester lever-gun or an UZI carbine in that caliber?

    As long as we're wandering, I suggest a thermal-imaging grid surrounding the property, a USMC Recon Unit outside the fence & a experienced IDF Battalion as Close Support to the house. Maybe coordinated with E-3 Sentry AWAC overhead.

    Barring that...the .30-30 would be my pick.
    Thanks for being a smart alleck. Due to forum rules I won't tell you what else I'd like to say.

    I missread the OP and mistakenly thought he was considering the purchase of a 30-30. If you go back and re-read posts 24 through now you will see how we got here. The 7.62x39 is very close in ballistics to a 30-30 and because I thought the OP was in the market for a 30-30 or a similar weapon I mentioned it. Well before you decided to submit your snooty post the OP informed me of my mistake. Oh, and he did it without being rude. The ballistic comparison was an answer to another poster, who even though I made a different mistake with him, has been very kind and informative. You sir, have not.
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and Ió
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    First off, it's just plain un-American to not have a 30-30.

    Secondly, an uzi is not much more than a glorified handgun.

    I have recently fallen back in love with my 30-30 and have been shooting it and reloading for it lately. I can't believe I let it sit in the safe un-used for all those years while I pounded bone spurs into my shoulder with "bigger and better."

    The main drawback to lever guns is that they are difficult to use in the prone position, which, if your smart, is where you'll be if someone's shooting back.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    For long range 30-30 shooting buy Hornady Leverevolution 160 gr, muzzle velocity 2400 F.P.S. good for out to 300 yds. Sportsman guide shooters catalog has it for $18.57/20. My 30-30 has been used for everything from 100gr. plinking to 170 gr. Elk. Where I hunt there is little chance for going prone because there is to much stuff in the way. Most of my shooting is either kneeling, sitting , squatting, or standing. A 30-30 is light, fast reacting, and accurate enough for home defence. I of course use iron sights. It is obvious that I like leverguns.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    atctimmy,

    being a smart alleck
    being rude
    your snooty post
    very kind and informative. You sir, have not.
    A little over-sensitive, thin-skinned & defensive toward someone who, without name-calling or insults, just asked a question? No idea you'd take it as a personal offense. Not my intent, please sir, accept my apology.

    go back and re-read posts 24 through now
    I try to read all the posts before I chime-in.

    Due to forum rules I won't tell you what else I'd like to say.
    I simply made an inquiry & have now apologized. If you're still stewing, send me a PM. No taunt intended, just offering.

    Now back to Winchesters & UZIs.

    Best Regards,
    Ghost Tracker
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  14. #43
    VIP Member
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    I simply made an inquiry & have now apologized.
    Accepted.
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and Ió
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  15. #44
    Member Array laeckcrov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtD View Post
    First off, it's just plain un-American to not have a 30-30.
    That's probably the most accurate statement, and one of the best arguments I've seen on this thread!

    I'm not sure about velocity differences from an Uzi vs a handgun, but i can't imagine you are getting much more stopping power out of the Uzi. It's not a rifle, so the fact that rifles offer a completely different power level does not apply. I can understand the advantages of having a pistol caliber automatic weapon, but as I understand it, the OP does not have his class 3 permit. And we aren't even talking a carbine in a powerful pistol round, i.e. .44magnum, .454 casull, .460 or .500 S&W, any of which, in a carbine, i would think of closer to rifle power than handgun power.

    IMHO, either get the class 3 permit and an automatic Uzi, or go with a rifle, in this case the .30-30
    The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says, "Go Away" in every language.

    Fast is fine, accuracy is final. Learn to be slow in a hurry.

    "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    The UZI with the (legal)18+ inch barrel pushes a 125 grain in the 1500-1600 fps range. This ammo is labeled not to be shot in pistols.
    Maybe it is true ???
    In which case it would have a little more energy than a hot .357 mag.

    The UZI is probably a better deterrent; it's black and evil looking

    The 30-30 is a 100 + years old real american legend. And it's pretty !!!

    So, the UZI will stay on display and the Winchester will come to the bedroom.

    Anybody here ever shot the "accelerator" a sabot thing in 30-30 ???
    Maybe it doesn't exist anymore ...
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

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