AR-15 Builders....

This is a discussion on AR-15 Builders.... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Of course I got black rifle fever. Oh, what a great time to spend a bunch of money . I purchased a D.P.M.S. stripped lower ...

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Thread: AR-15 Builders....

  1. #1
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    AR-15 Builders....

    Of course I got black rifle fever. Oh, what a great time to spend a bunch of money. I purchased a D.P.M.S. stripped lower yesterday. Not my first choice but it was all I could find that wasn't marked up three hundred dollars. I wanted to buy a complete name brand rifle because it would have gone up in value. Because of the election all the local shops are either out, or price gouging. I wanted to know if any of you guys have any experience with J&T Distributing. They have great prices on kits for my lower receiver. I cannot find any trash on them but want to be sure. I am not looking for a top of the line rifle, but I will use it for home defense and need something that will function reliably. Is this a fair choice? This will be my first build. I am mechanically inclined and look forward to the process. Any suggestions would be great. Of course, I do not want to spend a ton of money but will not purchase the bottom end rifles like Olympic Arms, XYZ brand AR's, etc...
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    I purchase mine from Del-Ton. Good people over there.

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    BAC
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    Don't trust kits. Often enough they're mixed together parts that were rejected from various builders, and I've never heard of a kit-rifle described as "reliable" outside of common range use. You don't want to buy from a company like Olympic Arms (smart move), so why remain in the lower tier just because the price is good?

    You can grab a complete ADS 16" midlength upper for $600. Grab a CMT lower parts kit and M4 stock kit for $130 (including an assumed $10 for shipping) from Anvil Arms and you have a complete rifle. Alternatively, you can grab a Henderson Defense M4H3, which is $800 for a complete rifle and blows anything else at its price range out of the water. Quite frankly, it competes directly with rifles that cost $200-$300 more, and I'm unsuccessful in my search to find bad about the rifle or the company behind it.

    You'll find a lot of topics related to this one, most of them very recent, by browsing the first three or four pages of the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion part of the forum.


    -B

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    Member Array nikdfish's Avatar
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    J&T Distributing are the components sales arm of DoubleStar. I think you can feel pretty comfortable with them. I built my AR on one of their (DoubleStar) lowers, and was tempted by their 16" "Dissapator" kit, but ended up using a 16" mid-length kit from Del-ton (another good company... ). Both companies also sell complete rifles and their kit's upper assemblies all come fully assembled, headspaced and tested. I don't think either company could be characterized as selling "reject junk".

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I've built a couple rifles from J&T and they all function without a hitch
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    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikdfish View Post
    J&T Distributing are the components sales arm of DoubleStar. I think you can feel pretty comfortable with them. I built my AR on one of their (DoubleStar) lowers, and was tempted by their 16" "Dissapator" kit, but ended up using a 16" mid-length kit from Del-ton (another good company... ). Both companies also sell complete rifles and their kit's upper assemblies all come fully assembled, headspaced and tested. I don't think either company could be characterized as selling "reject junk".

    Nick
    This was the consensus I found scanning the forums. Thanks for piping up.

    BAC- I appreciate your input, but is your lack of trust in kits first hand knowledge or something you heard about build rifles? I mean Bushmaster makes a kit, would you call those reject parts? unfortunately I do not have the funds to purchase a top quality rifle. Hence, why I am remaining in the lower tier because the price is good. However, I will research the names you have given me. My goal is to get a reliable rifle at a fair price, something I believe can be done.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

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    JT
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    I would go this route...

    Stag Rifle Kit Less Stripped Lower
    $633.00
    You Get A STAG 2H M-4 16" UPPER with Flip-Up Rear Site, AND a side sling adapter, AND a STAG 6 POS TAC STOCK KIT, AND a STAG LOWER PARTS KIT, AND a STAG 30rd Mag with Green Follower. ADD YOUR STRIPPED LOWER AND YOU HAVE A COMPLETE RIFLE WITH 30 rd MAG.

    http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html


    Everything you need. You get a factory built Stag upper, and the parts you need to build your lower. And that price includes shipping. Only down side is 5-7 week wait, but you're going to find that all over.
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    Member Array Glock30SF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    I would go this route...

    Stag Rifle Kit Less Stripped Lower
    $633.00
    You Get A STAG 2H M-4 16" UPPER with Flip-Up Rear Site, AND a side sling adapter, AND a STAG 6 POS TAC STOCK KIT, AND a STAG LOWER PARTS KIT, AND a STAG 30rd Mag with Green Follower. ADD YOUR STRIPPED LOWER AND YOU HAVE A COMPLETE RIFLE WITH 30 rd MAG.

    Order Stag Arms Products Online!


    Everything you need. You get a factory built Stag upper, and the parts you need to build your lower. And that price includes shipping. Only down side is 5-7 week wait, but you're going to find that all over.
    That is the way to go. Tell them you saw the group buy on ar15.com and get it for $599 shipped!
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    I'll chime in to support BAC's position on kits. They are fine for light use but if you want reliability you should get a good BCG and LPK. Or get the Kit for use now, and replace the BCG and LPK and keep the kit ones as emergency spares. BCG related failures are the only kind of failure I have witnessed or experienced first hand in carbine courses. The guys with good BCG's don't seem to share those experiences.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    none of my kit ARs have ever given me problems.
    Use good parts like DPMS or Sabre lower parts kits
    Get a good quality lower, Doublestar, DPMS, Spikes Tactical, etc
    Mate that with a good upper from Doublestar, Rock River, DPMS, Sabre, etc

    Mine was almost flawless in training. ONLY problem was when she ran dry.
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    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bando View Post

    BAC- I appreciate your input, but is your lack of trust in kits first hand knowledge or something you heard about build rifles? I mean Bushmaster makes a kit, would you call those reject parts? unfortunately I do not have the funds to purchase a top quality rifle. Hence, why I am remaining in the lower tier because the price is good. However, I will research the names you have given me. My goal is to get a reliable rifle at a fair price, something I believe can be done.
    Yes, the Bushmaster kits will still more often than not be parts that were rejected from regular production rifles. Also, it is normal for kit guns to fail to meet what I would consider minimum standards for functional rifles: incorrect buffers for the gas system, overly-wide gas ports, no staking of carrier keys and castle nuts, and correct FSBs for flat-tops. (The last one Bushmaster does even on its production rifles).

    My lack of trust comes from witnessing kit guns fail under non-stressful range conditions (like matiki said, usually related to the BCG) and from frequent conversations with folks who shoot AR15s for a living, specifically trainers. Kit guns are the first ones to fail on the line in a carbine course, right up with "frankenguns" not made by professional or skilled builders.

    Before accepting anybody's word on a piece of equipment being reliable, try to find out the context. A poor-quality gun can be called reliable if it shoots no more than a thousand rounds a year and almost all of them from a bench, you know?

    My goal is to get a reliable rifle at a fair price, something I believe can be done.
    What are you looking to pay, overall? Grabbing an ADS from G&R Tactical or a Henderson Defense rifle is probably going to be as good as you're going to get for an inexpensive AR15 that isn't cheap. If I could do my AR-building experience over again, I'd have gone that way instead of what I'm doing now.


    -B

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array wht06rado's Avatar
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    I got mine from Del-ton. No problems here. I haven't heard anything bad about J&T either though. If you can get a good deal on it or at least in your budget I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. Enjoy your build. They are a lot of fun to build!!!!
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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I just bought one from American Firearms Manufacturing Company. I just spent 3 hours on the phone with Mitch and I would not buy one anywhere else. Very very impressive. I am going to do a complete write up of the conversation when I get a bit more time.
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post
    I just bought one from American Firearms Manufacturing Company. I just spent 3 hours on the phone with Mitch and I would not buy one anywhere else. Very very impressive. I am going to do a complete write up of the conversation when I get a bit more time.
    Wow. I expect a full range report private!
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Don't trust kits. Often enough they're mixed together parts that were rejected from various builders, and I've never heard of a kit-rifle described as "reliable" outside of common range use. You don't want to buy from a company like Olympic Arms (smart move), so why remain in the lower tier just because the price is good?

    -B
    I have to disagree with that comment. The kit will be as good as the gun if you get it from a good dealer. I have built 6 AR's and 1 FAL. I enjoy building them, and I do a much better job than Century, or several other mfgt's guns I have seen. Never had a problem with any of my builds.
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