AR 15s by Olympic Arms ??

This is a discussion on AR 15s by Olympic Arms ?? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; That didn't address any of my points. That Olympic Arms manufactures their ARs in-house is not only not unique to them, it's irrelevant to the ...

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  1. #16
    BAC
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    That didn't address any of my points. That Olympic Arms manufactures their ARs in-house is not only not unique to them, it's irrelevant to the overall quality of the weapon. If you're going to claim that they manufacture for other companies, you bear the burden of proof to show you're right, not the person who questions you for sources. The warranty comment I said I wouldn't touch except to ask the folks who do own them, and who have actual experience with them, how they feel about the warranty of their firearm.

    To answer your question, I do not have an Olympic Arms firearm. I will not purchase one, either. They have a strange tendency to fail at the rifle ranges I've frequented at a higher rate than any other firearm in attendance (frankenguns excluded). I've toyed with them enough at gun shows to know that their magazine dimensions are frequently out-of-spec, and a particular vendor was pretty pissed when I asked why the lower being sold by the fellow next to him wouldn't line up correctly with his uppers.

    Look, it's no secret anywhere that Olympic Arms has had issues. Really. If they're trying to fix them, awesome news. I highly doubt that Olympic Arms is going to make a firearm that appeals to me. I don't buy firearms as "plinking" guns, both because I can't afford it and because I only want to "buy once". I can plink as much with a quality gun as I can with one of lower quality.


    -B

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    That didn't address any of my points. That Olympic Arms manufactures their ARs in-house is not only not unique to them, it's irrelevant to the overall quality of the weapon. If you're going to claim that they manufacture for other companies, you bear the burden of proof to show you're right, not the person who questions you for sources. The warranty comment I said I wouldn't touch except to ask the folks who do own them, and who have actual experience with them, how they feel about the warranty of their firearm.
    I misunderstood you on the warranty point. My bad.

    You are absolutely correct, the burden of proof lies on me. However, since you believe it is irrelevant, I am not going to dig back into OA2 archives.....we'll call it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    To answer your question, I do not have an Olympic Arms firearm. I will not purchase one, either. They have a strange tendency to fail at the rifle ranges I've frequented at a higher rate than any other firearm in attendance (frankenguns excluded). I've toyed with them enough at gun shows to know that their magazine dimensions are frequently out-of-spec, and a particular vendor was pretty pissed when I asked why the lower being sold by the fellow next to him wouldn't line up correctly with his uppers.
    To be honest, you have affirmed what I said about OLY bashers. You have never owned one. You are going on "what you have heard". I group people that fall into this category with the people that tell me at the gun range/store that I have to change my Glock barrel once every 2000 rds. No disrespect here, but I only have two categories: those that are spewing bull**** and those that know what they are talking about. I dont judge ANY other brand that I have not personally owned. Ask me about Bushmaster...I'll tell you that I have no friggin clue so go ask someone who OWNS one. I wish that OLY bashers would follow the same rule. If there was a thread asking about colonial muskets would you reply? Didn't think so.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Look, it's no secret anywhere that Olympic Arms has had issues. Really. If they're trying to fix them, awesome news. I highly doubt that Olympic Arms is going to make a firearm that appeals to me. I don't buy firearms as "plinking" guns, both because I can't afford it and because I only want to "buy once". I can plink as much with a quality gun as I can with one of lower quality.


    -B
    I will agree with you on this point. It is absolutely no secret that just four years ago I wouldn't have touched Oly firearms with a ten foot pole..seriously. They were rap, not even worth the metal they were made of. Seriously. BUT let me tell you from someone who used to bash OLY as well that they have changed in recent years. I was SURPRISED at the quality...because I know what crap they used to make. They really have turned it around. As previous posts have stated, many of the issues that got them their horrible reputation were related to the cast lowers. This was not so long ago..I do realize that. They learned their lesson from that. I realize that there may be bad stigma attached to that, and I can understand that. I would vouch for the quality of any of the new-production Olys though. They really have turned things around. They had to or they were going to put themselves out of business.

    To address your last comment, I AGREE..None of us have money just laying around to have "plinking" gun and a "serious" gun. It simply does not make sense. I dont have much money, just like a lot of people. That is what I seriously looked into Oly this time around. Last time I saw that they were junk and ran. Things have changed. I bought an Oly because I could SEE and feel the quality difference between old Oly and new Oly. I know they used to sell crap. I have handled both their new ARs and their old AR's. I can see why they got the reputation that they did. Please realize that they have changed and you shouldn't make assumptions based on what you previously knew. I am a member at ar15.com, despite the bashing I previously did. I have seen that even some of their members are realizing that Oly has turned around.
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    However, since you believe it is irrelevant, I am not going to dig back into OA2 archives.....we'll call it at that.
    You misread me. It's pretty relevant if you're going to claim that they make other people's parts. What's not relevant is that they make their own parts.

    To be honest, you have affirmed what I said about OLY bashers. You have never owned one. You are going on "what you have heard".
    Did you read my response? I watch Olympic guns go down. I've pondered alongside the owners (before I knew a damn thing about ARs) what went wrong and why it wasn't working. I've touched and messed with them in gun shops and at gun shows; note my example about their upper not fitting on other company's lowers. None of that comes from "what I heard".

    BUT if you want to go on what people have heard, ask around for this fellow who usually goes by "demigod" or "markm". He collects Olympic Arms horror stories as a past-time and has a pretty extensive collection. You could also call or email any number of professional trainers what their opinion is about Olympic Arms AR15s.


    -B

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    Well, I cannot comment on all the debates over the reputation of Olympic in the past. I haven't shot the gun yet. But it looks and feels solid. Mechanisms feel well constructed also.

    Hope to take it to the range soon and then can provide some current feedback on the experience.
    Boomer Sooner!

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    Well, I cannot comment on all the debates over the reputation of Olympic in the past. I haven't shot the gun yet. But it looks and feels solid. Mechanisms feel well constructed also.

    Hope to take it to the range soon and then can provide some current feedback on the experience.
    Keep a positive attitude and put the gun through its paces. The one thing that is true of all professionals, is that their opinion is the only one that matters, unless another opinion is the same as theirs.

    So... there's a ton of bad experiences with Oly arms out there, and a lot of them are valid beefs. That said, there are also guys that are still running cast Oly lowers and have never been happier. The problem is, the moment they share their experience they're dismissed by the pros.

    Here's to hoping your experience is one of the good ones.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    You misread me. It's pretty relevant if you're going to claim that they make other people's parts. What's not relevant is that they make their own parts.
    Fine here ya go: OA2.org :: View topic - Concerned about purchasing an OA after reading other forums
    That is a thread at OA2.org in which Rattler, the President of OLY arms states that they made parts for BUSHMASTER when they first started up. They make no fewer than 5 other brands parts as well. Dont believe it? RRA used to be 3rd tier on the infamous "chart" that gets passed around in these circles (especially ar15.com). I say used to be because suddenly, once they got a contract with the DEA, they became tier one. NOTHING changed. The guys who drink the kool-aid are all a bunch of gear whores. I'll say it once and I'll say it again: who should the average person trust? Someone who OWNS one and has SHOT one, or somebody who has "handled a couple at a gun show and has seen some fail". Let me tell you what, I have seen MANY ABC rifles failing at the range. Hell, some of them couldn't operate correctly to save their lives. I DONT go around talking about them because I have never owned one. That is a fact. Stop talking about things you have no personal knowledge of. Also, you stating that it is not important that they make their own parts is yet again complete BS. It IS important because it enables them to offer lower prices, oversee production COMPLETELY, and make their OWN product. You are an idiot if you dont think that is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Did you read my response? I watch Olympic guns go down. I've pondered alongside the owners (before I knew a damn thing about ARs) what went wrong and why it wasn't working. I've touched and messed with them in gun shops and at gun shows; note my example about their upper not fitting on other company's lowers. None of that comes from "what I heard".
    As I stated above, I have seen some with other manufacturers too. It just doesn't get spread around because unlike people like you I don't go around dissing rifles that I don't own or have any first hand experience with. Glock and many other manufacturers have had issues too. As I stated earlier, OLY earned their bad reputation, but are making great rifles now. You dont mention the last time that you "saw" an issue. Oh, and a receiver not lining up? I could take the line you are on this and say "well I havent seen it, so it doesn't exist but instead I will choose to be remotely intelligent in my response and say "it happens". Don't think that is hasn't happened with Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, or any other manufacturer. Hell, Colt even makes a KIT to correct the incorrectly sized holes in some of their lower receivers. That is how common of a problem it is. It's just that people didn't crucify colt for it..hmm..let's see maybe it's because they have that gov't contract JUST LIKE RRA WHO USED TO BE "3RD TIER". Don't for once try to tell me that every manufacturer doesn't have their issues. You would be a bold faced liar!

    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    BUT if you want to go on what people have heard, ask around for this fellow who usually goes by "demigod" or "markm". He collects Olympic Arms horror stories as a past-time and has a pretty extensive collection. You could also call or email any number of professional trainers what their opinion is about Olympic Arms AR15s.


    -B
    You want to talk about professional trainers, huh? Olympic Arms supplies the training rifles for the US AIR FORCE and has provided training rifles to every branch of the US military at some point in time!! I suppose you will want proof of that too....

    OA2.org :: View topic - Olympic Arms fulfilling more USAF Contracts

    I think that is about as professional as trainers get......

    I am not going to waste my time emailing some guy who has it out for Olympic Arms. I could start collecting Armalite, Bushmaster, or Colt horror stories....does that make either of those companies inferior. NO. The fact of the matter is that you can collect horror stories about any weapon. Everyone has their issues. As I previously stated, Colt isn't even exempt from this statement. Hell, they had to sell KITS to fix their problem....
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  8. #22
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    Fine here ya go: OA2.org :: View topic - Concerned about purchasing an OA after reading other forums
    Thank you for providing that. I’ll have to call a few of these companies to see if I can verify, but I do appreciate you sharing.

    What you should keep in mind is that while a company can lower its prices by manufacturing all parts of its products, quality control is what ultimately determines whether or not the parts are workable, especially with parts made to spec by other companies. If an Olympic Arms lower receiver, for example, is made correctly, I should be able to take any other to-spec lower parts kit and stick it in, and should be able to attach it to any other to-spec upper receiver (remember my previous example?). Bravo Company, Colt, FNH, Lewis Machine & Tool, and Noveske have the highest rejection rates of any other company that builds AR15s/M16s/M4s. Oddly enough they also have the highest quality AR15s/M16s/M4s. Here’s a question you should ask: how many of those parts Olympic Arms provides are rejected, compared to other companies who manufacture parts (Continental Machine & Tool comes to mind)?

    Concerning experience, if you truly believe one must own a weapon to have experience with it, then there’s no need for this discussion to continue. What I saw (not what I heard from someone else who saw), what I discussed with owners as the troubles happened (not what I heard from someone else who spoke with them), what transpired at both a Tampa gun show and a local shop (not what’s been said by someone else who said the same thing), all within the last two years apparently does not count as first-hand experience with a firearm. This topic isn’t that personal to me, so I don’t have a problem dropping that issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    As I stated above, I have seen some <x> with other manufacturers too.
    I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. All mechanical devices fail, and all have a chance to be built incorrectly. My point is that screw-ups happen more often with some brands than others. If you took 100 Colts 6920, 100 LMT equivalents, 100 Noveske N4 Light Carbines, and 100 Olympic Arms K3B-M4s, which of these do you think would perform the best for the longest using industry-accepted test measures? Which do you think would have the highest or lowest likelihood of assembly and manufacturing defects?

    (As an aside, I think the “kit” you’re referring to is one made because Colt makes two different lower receivers with two different pivot/take-down pin diameters. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong.)

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    You want to talk about professional trainers, huh? Olympic Arms supplies the training rifles for the <x> US AIR FORCE and has provided training rifles to every branch of the US military at some point in time!! I suppose you will want proof of that too....
    That right? What does the company prez say about this?

    Just in case you do not know what a CT (Cobalt Trainerģ) is, it is a replica/mock M16A2 or M16M4 in a variety of configurations (collapsable stocks, A2 upers, flat-top uppers, FIRSH handguards etc.) that can be used for all weapons familiarization training, drill and ceremony, user maintenance training etc, but is an ATF recognized NON-GUN, and can not be made to fire.
    Emphasis mine. 1500 non-gun replicas restricted to training in the least intensive training environment of our armed forces doesn’t do much for your argument. It also doesn’t address the fact that the vast majority of professional trainers gain nothing by dissing or pimping any specific brand.

    luvmyglock, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t get anything from one company being better or worse than the other. I bash Bushmaster because they knowingly assemble their AR15s with the wrong front sight post for their flat-tops. I bag DPMS and RRA (no, they are not considered "Tier 1", regardless of their contract) all the time for a large number of cut-corners. Sabre Defense tries to command Colt prices for a rifle that doesn't measure up to a Colt. Short version: my criticism isn't limited to any one company, because nearly all of them have done stupid things (I can't find a criticism about Bravo Company or Noveske yet). The original poster (bgriffin70) got a rifle in a time that it's awful hard to find them, especially below a grand. All I'm saying is don't lead him to believe his rifle is something it's not. A plinker/range-toy it is. A "working" gun it's not.


    -B

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Thank you for providing that. Iíll have to call a few of these companies to see if I can verify, but I do appreciate you sharing.

    What you should keep in mind is that while a company can lower its prices by manufacturing all parts of its products, quality control is what ultimately determines whether or not the parts are workable, especially with parts made to spec by other companies. If an Olympic Arms lower receiver, for example, is made correctly, I should be able to take any other to-spec lower parts kit and stick it in, and should be able to attach it to any other to-spec upper receiver (remember my previous example?). Bravo Company, Colt, FNH, Lewis Machine & Tool, and Noveske have the highest rejection rates of any other company that builds AR15s/M16s/M4s. Oddly enough they also have the highest quality AR15s/M16s/M4s. Hereís a question you should ask: how many of those parts Olympic Arms provides are rejected, compared to other companies who manufacture parts (Continental Machine & Tool comes to mind)?

    Concerning experience, if you truly believe one must own a weapon to have experience with it, then thereís no need for this discussion to continue. What I saw (not what I heard from someone else who saw), what I discussed with owners as the troubles happened (not what I heard from someone else who spoke with them), what transpired at both a Tampa gun show and a local shop (not whatís been said by someone else who said the same thing), all within the last two years apparently does not count as first-hand experience with a firearm. This topic isnít that personal to me, so I donít have a problem dropping that issue.



    Iím not saying it doesnít happen. All mechanical devices fail, and all have a chance to be built incorrectly. My point is that screw-ups happen more often with some brands than others. If you took 100 Colts 6920, 100 LMT equivalents, 100 Noveske N4 Light Carbines, and 100 Olympic Arms K3B-M4s, which of these do you think would perform the best for the longest using industry-accepted test measures? Which do you think would have the highest or lowest likelihood of assembly and manufacturing defects?

    (As an aside, I think the ďkitĒ youíre referring to is one made because Colt makes two different lower receivers with two different pivot/take-down pin diameters. Iím sure Iíll be corrected if Iím wrong.)



    That right? What does the company prez say about this?



    Emphasis mine. 1500 non-gun replicas restricted to training in the least intensive training environment of our armed forces doesnít do much for your argument. It also doesnít address the fact that the vast majority of professional trainers gain nothing by dissing or pimping any specific brand.

    luvmyglock, I donít have a dog in this fight. I donít get anything from one company being better or worse than the other. I bash Bushmaster because they knowingly assemble their AR15s with the wrong front sight post for their flat-tops. I bag DPMS and RRA (no, they are not considered "Tier 1", regardless of their contract) all the time for a large number of cut-corners. Sabre Defense tries to command Colt prices for a rifle that doesn't measure up to a Colt. Short version: my criticism isn't limited to any one company, because nearly all of them have done stupid things (I can't find a criticism about Bravo Company or Noveske yet). The original poster (bgriffin70) got a rifle in a time that it's awful hard to find them, especially below a grand. All I'm saying is don't lead him to believe his rifle is something it's not. A plinker/range-toy it is. A "working" gun it's not.


    -B
    I am sure that we both have learned something of this conversation. I don't necessarily have a "dog in the fight" either. True enough, I own an olympic arms, but I also dont give if Oly goes under tomorrow (save for my warranty of course). To be honest, I can see where you are coming from. Hell, one pin in my lower is a little loose. I CAN see where you are coming from. What I can't see is why all the criticism towards Oly, when everyone has problems? Sure, they aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing and IMO better than a kit. I know plenty of officers that use Oly on duty and in SRT. I work in the criminal justice field, and have seen Oly used, although not extensively. Truth be told, I'm not sure I would trust my life on my Oly in the field, if there were other options. However, with two kids and a wife getting the money for a "higher quality" firearm is simply not possible.
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Not to jump in the middle, but I just wanted to say that I have a friend that has an Olypmic Arms AR and he's never had a problem with it. It's also a joy to shoot as well. Good luck with it, and it sounds like a great gift!

    -Jeff-

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    Maybe I should tell my wife, "thanks honey, but this rifle sucks?" Geez - didn't mean to start an online argument over Olympic Arms.
    Maybe they should start selling their products as "Goodwill Guns, Inc.?"

    BAC - sure sounds like you have a personal "beef" with OLY.
    Not sure how that applies to my original post, but if it helps you "vent," go ahead.

    I'm happy with the gun and it seems like a quality, entry-level rifle to me.
    Until the thing falls apart on me, I have no reason to suspect I have a junk gun as implied in some earlier posts.
    Boomer Sooner!

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    Maybe I should tell my wife, "thanks honey, but this rifle sucks?" Geez - didn't mean to start an online argument over Olympic Arms.
    Maybe they should start selling their products as "Goodwill Guns, Inc.?"

    BAC - sure sounds like you have a personal "beef" with OLY.
    Not sure how that applies to my original post, but if it helps you "vent," go ahead.

    I'm happy with the gun and it seems like a quality, entry-level rifle to me.
    Until the thing falls apart on me, I have no reason to suspect I have a junk gun as implied in some earlier posts.
    Bgriffin,
    My apologies. I did not intend on ruining your thread, your excitement over your new rifle, or your choice.

    I think you said what neither of us could adequately express when you said "quality, entry level rifle"! The fact of the matter is that it is an entry level rifle. Nobody here is denying that. It is NOT a $2000 Novesky...never will be...however that does not mean that it is not quality...can we agree on that BAC???
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  13. #27
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    BAC - sure sounds like you have a personal "beef" with OLY.
    Not sure how that applies to my original post, but if it helps you "vent," go ahead.

    I'm happy with the gun and it seems like a quality, entry-level rifle to me.
    Until the thing falls apart on me, I have no reason to suspect I have a junk gun as implied in some earlier posts.
    No beef at all; like I said, I don't have personal investment in this. Pick a company (bar the two earlier ones I mentioned) and I can find things I dislike about them, too. At the end of the day, you're pleased with your purchase, and like you said you have no reason to suspect it's junk until problems crop up. I can definitely agree with that. To luvmyglock's point, it's no Noveske and was never meant to be either. I can agree with that, too.


    -B

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    That's all I plan on using it for... as an entry level rifle to enjoy shooting on occasion with the kids. Since I don't plan on going into combat, I guess I'll settle for what I can afford.
    Boomer Sooner!

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    That's all I plan on using it for... as an entry level rifle to enjoy shooting on occasion with the kids. Since I don't plan on going into combat, I guess I'll settle for what I can afford.
    And there we have it. A realistic man no delusional grand illusions of saving the world with his AR15. Congrats on the rifle, and enjoy it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Well as an Oly owner (I own 2) I can speak directly to not only the quality of their rifles, but I can attest to their warranty and customer service departments.

    My first Oly was a Used cast lower that I picked up at a gun show several years ago. I shot practical rifle with it every month for 3 years. Round count on that particular rifle has long since been forgotten. During a range day I was using some work up loads that were a tiny bit below listed max for the bullet weight. Some how I managed to double charge a round. When I fired it the Upper literally split in half causing no major damage to me but rendering the entire rifle nothing more than scrap. I sent Oly a letter thanking them for building such a robust rifle, that would take the abuse of a negligent reloader and still leave him unscathed in his stupidity. I explained that I in no way blamed the company and that they were in fact reloads that caused the malfunction. And that I was enclosing pictures to show the damage that my stupidity caused. I got a call from Oly asking me to bring the rifle up to the factory so that they could inspect it. I agreed and made arrangements for the following week since I was going to be in Seattle on business anyway. I arrived at Oly shortly after 1 and was greated by several of their QA engineers and the owner of Oly. While the braniacs hustled off with my parts I received a guided tour of the factory and had a nice chat with the owner. I reitterated that I didn't expect the rifle to be replaced or any other such thing just that I was a firm believer in their product and that the next AR that I purchased would be an Oly. During our chat I inquired about purchasing my new rifle while I was there and having it shipped to my FFL once it was complete. They did me one better than that. They asked me which rifle that I was looking at and said that they would be happy to send it to my FFL once it was manufactured free of charge. Long story short about 4 weeks later I get a call to come pick up my rifle. I get there and instead of what should have been a standard A2 varient is a Service Match. I called Oly form the gun shop and was told that they hadn't made a mistake but were told that my rifle was to be upgraded to the SM per "The guy who signs my paychecks" I thanked them profusely and took my "New" rifle home.

    Fast forward to last year and I'm in the market for more of a bench/ varmit .223 myself and 3 co-workers ordered K8's and I can tell you that when they arrived there we some minor differences, One had a slightly lighter trigger than the other two. One came with the swivel stud already installed (The one I took OBTW). I've got 3-4k through my K8 as of right now with only a couple of FTF's that were attributed to a bad mag. The other two are similarly flawless. Would I reccomend an Oly AR absolutely are there potentially better AR platforms out there sure. But bang for the buck they are IMHO one of the best AR clones on the market to date.
    The 6 P's
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