December 2nd, 2008 11:28 AM
In your opinion, how important is an optic on a defensive rifle...
Not really important.
Originally Posted by Sarge45
IMHO: Typical AK - Iron Sights. Typical AR - Optics. Comes down what I might use an AK for (SD up to 100 yards) vs AR (SD to ???). Also, IMO, the AK aims a little more naturally then the AR.
When I use lever action 30/30 I use iron sights (hunting conditions 100 yards or so). When I use a bolt action 30.06 I use scope.
I don't think the AK really needs optics (just like when I hunt with a 30/30). I think the AR might be able to take advantage of the optics (just like when I hunt with a scoped 30.06).
But really just comes down to the person and the application.
Last edited by Thanis; December 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 PM.
December 2nd, 2008 11:30 AM
Why not? If your threat is firing at you from 50+ meters, are you not allowed to shoot back? Is it not self defense because the distance is greater than 50 meters?
Originally Posted by philman
Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.
December 2nd, 2008 12:03 PM
I think what philman was saying 00Spy is that most scenarios where civilians fire are from contact to 7 yards, which is a valid point. I have a carbine for my 5 foot tall lady who may need more rounds, a light, and a eotech to defend herself in the back of the house with. Is it possible that I might use it to defend us with someday? Sure, if the city is rioting and burning around us I suppose, although its not very likely. Personally I prefer using a pistol in close but a carbine is a very valid choice.
December 2nd, 2008 12:25 PM
"Iron sights should never be an after thought. They should be an integral part of your rifle skills. [on]soapbox[/off]"
December 2nd, 2008 02:21 PM
Advocating mounting a RDS on a rifle is not the same as not advocating understanding and knowing how to use iron sights.
The average person is well prepared with a defensive rifle. I typically recommend a weapons mounted light to be the most important add-on for the average user. The addition of a red dot sight allows shooters to quickly engage targets from a variety of positions and in a variety of conditions. Does that make it important? Maybe, maybe not. I find the answer to largely revolve around either money or aesthetic preferences, not concerns for function and performance.
A defensive rifle is a advantage.
Add a light? More so.
Add a RDS? More so.
Remove the RDS? Less so.
Or something like that.
December 2nd, 2008 02:37 PM
Don't use dots on rifles with sights that are close to the bore, the electronic dots are slower than the Quick Kill rifle skills I use from zero out to 200 meters snap shooting on torso sized threats. On an AR or AK with the front sight sitting so far above the bore line, I can't use Quick Kill skills as effectively, so the dot would be an option there.
I'll have students using my sks out to 300 yd snap shooting on torso sized threats in less than 30 minutes.
Dots require you to be line of sight. I don't use line of sight skills with a rifle or pistol unless I need to make precise shots.
I've been playing with a dotted glock in preparation for Tuesday night steel shoots for the last month. Thought I was ready to go, but last Tuesday the scores on every stage showed different. About 2-3 seconds slower per stage with the dot gun over the standard glock without dot using Quick Kill.
I'm back for Tuesday night steel again tonight with the stock glock, the dot will sit on the sidelines until I can reproduce the speed on threats I have without it, or be relegated to a fun gun only.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
December 2nd, 2008 06:38 PM
Absolutely, it would just be somewhat unusual. Plus, If someone was shooting at me at 50 meters, I'm a gonna run like hell first. If the guy is that good of a shoot, I think I'm done for.
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
I carry a gun for the same reason I own a smoke detector...I never, ever, plan on needing them...but if I do need them, and have them in a box...I won't be able to get to them for use fast enough.
December 2nd, 2008 07:48 PM
Anywhere from contact to longest-hallway. I don't have much in the way of a "yard". Others may have different answers (and different requirements).
Originally Posted by philman
Smart question to ask, though.
Sarge45, all of those concerns can be managed by making sure that optic is an Aimpoint. Just saying.
RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.
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December 2nd, 2008 08:44 PM
I grew up shooting guns with blade-type sights, and honestly a lot of that was with air rifles and pistols. I never have gotten very fast with peep sights, so my SBR ar-15 has an EOTech on it. I can shoot it pretty quickly!
Similarly, I have a couple AKs and they retain their iron sights exclusively. I can shoot those pretty quickly too, because I'm so comfortable with that setup.
I imagine if your initial experiences with rifles was in basic, you're probably going to be pretty comfortable with peep-sight irons. If you're like me and grew up in the woods with blade-sight pellet rifles, 10/22 and Mark 1s, you may need an optic on an AR to be most comfortable.
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