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Choosing a Semiautomatic Centerfire Rifle- Where to Begin?

6K views 34 replies 19 participants last post by  Fast Cloud 
#1 ·
In light of recent federal developments, I feel the need to make the most of this shrinking window we find ourselves in and buy a semiautomatic rifle. I already own a number of other guns, but no SA rifles. I know the most popular route is to choose from about a dozen AR-15 makers but I was thinking this through and had some questions.

1. Should I decide on a caliber first? Or is that a backwards way of shopping for an SA rifle?

2. How can I find the "best" in my price range without paying a premium for mil-spec standards?

3. How do you choose a weapon for home/emergency defense?

4. Is the .223 ammo that most AR-15s use much different than the .22 ammo that you see in small game rifles?

And yes, I have searched the archives and read old threads. I am trying to not ask the same questions that have been asked before. I have "narrowed it down" a bit on the rifles but I am still left poring over stats I do not understand on about a dozen different makes/models.

I want to get something that I can afford to buy about 1,500+ rounds of ammo for as well, since the federal government may try to tax us out of ammo for the next two years.
 
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#2 ·
1. Should I decide on a caliber first? Or is that a backwards way of shopping for an SA rifle?

Yes and no, stick with the norm is my advice. 5.56/.223 or 7.62x39 or .308 are the main choices. Going with something exotic is a huge mistake for a defensive rifle.

2. How can I find the "best" in my price range without paying a premium for mil-spec standards?

Whats your price range?

3. How do you choose a weapon for home/emergency defense?

Common parts and ammo is a must for me, that pretty much leaves the AR or AK platforms.

4. Is the .223 ammo that most AR-15s use much different than the .22 ammo that you see in small game rifles?

There is a huge difference. Just compare a 22lr and 223 shells, and you will begin to understand.
:hand10:
 
#3 ·
Pick Caliber and a platform you like.

I chose .308 and a FAL, because I wanted one and now I have 2

My defensive carbines are M1 carbines because I have them already and don't own a AR. As much as I like the M1 Carbine I have to admit that the .30 Carbine round is really a pistol caliber and not that easy to find.
 
#4 ·
I pretty much agree with Sixto. The only "alternative" suggestion I might would be something like the Remington 7600 series or Browning BAR in a hunting caliber of your choice, for the following reasons:

  • Parts. If you have a spare set of essentials (most are available from Brownells) you don't have to worry as much about networking. Obviously, this is also a drawback in a barter-economy.
  • Ammo. Pricing will pretty much even out, and will be more available over the next 6 months, possibly for the indefinite future.
  • Accessories. You won't be as tempted to Gear-Queer your rifle. Spend the money on mags, ammo, XS sights, and a good optic- synthetic furniture, if it doesn't come that way.
  • Power. Not much makes concealment out of cover like the .30-06, 7mm Mag, or similar.:wink:
 
#5 ·
1. Should I decide on a caliber first? Or is that a backwards way of shopping for an SA rifle?
I would decide on a budget first, then see what is available in that range.

2. How can I find the "best" in my price range without paying a premium for mil-spec standards?
The internet can be your friend! Lots of forums out there for just about every platform most of them will have some kind of buying guide or threads on where to find the best deals

3. How do you choose a weapon for home/emergency defense?
You need to realistically define its mission. If you live in a condo in an urban area and will shelter in place, what is the longest shot you will take? If your greatest range is fifty yards you probably would be wasting money on a Hk PSG-1. If you are out in the sticks a pistol caliber carbine might not cut it.
Whatever you get it has to be reliable. A Ruger 10/22 that works is better than some monster magnum that wont go "bang".

4. Is the .223 ammo that most AR-15s use much different than the .22 ammo that you see in small game rifles?
Yes it is. It is a centerfire bottle neck cartridge that propels usually a jacketed bullet around 3000 fps. A .22 rimfire is usually a small lead bullet at substantially lower velocities.

I want to get something that I can afford to buy about 1,500+ rounds of ammo for as well, since the federal government may try to tax us out of ammo for the next two years.
You should probably look for something in a military caliber in that case. One thing to be careful of with AR-15's is the chambering. If you are going to shoot military surplus ammo you want to get a rifle that is chambered for 5.56 nato. Nato chambers can safely fire .223 Remington, with a slight loss in accuracy, but not the other way around. Most manufacturers now use the Nato spec chamber or the "Wylde" chamber that is suitable for both.:bier:
 
#6 ·
1. Should I decide on a caliber first? Or is that a backwards way of shopping for an SA rifle?

No, the first decision to make is, what will it be used for. What caliber to get is the second decision to you need to make.

2. How can I find the "best" in my price range without paying a premium for mil-spec standards?

Use the Internet to shop around. Check out the local gun shows. Check out the local gun shops.

3. How do you choose a weapon for home/emergency defense?

Is this going to be a home defense weapon or just something in anticipation of a future gun ban?

If it will be a home/self defense weapon, what is your environment (House in an urban neighborhood? Condo/apartment? Rural? How far to your nearest neighbor?)? Is a rifle what you really want for your purpose (Rifle or shotgun?)? Spend some time at the local ranges and visit some of the local competition meets. Talk to people. Get as many opinions as you can and then consider which opinions come from people you would or would not trust. Then talk to more people, call some of the better training facilities and see if they will discuss your needs with you.

See if you can borrow or rent some of the weapons you are considering to “try them out”.

After all this then you will, hopefully, have enough information to make up your mind for yourself.

4. Is the .223 ammo that most AR-15s use much different than the .22 ammo that you see in small game rifles?
Yes, there is a tremendous amount of difference between the two. The .22LR (which is what you see in the “small game’ rifles) is appropriate for small animals such as squirrel and rabbit while the.223 is a much more powerful round and has much more power and range.

Assuming that you are, indeed, looking for a home/self defense weapon I would recommend a pistol or shotgun and not a rifle. Rifles are designed to “reach out and touch” which is not generally needed in a self defense situation.

However, if you are looking for something in anticipation of a gun ban, I would recommend either one of the many flavors of AR 15, or AK rifles that are on the market. These are both items that will most likely be addressed in any future gun ban. They are also both tremendously fun to shoot as well as having reasonably inexpensive ammo, as long as you stick with the standard .223 or 7.62 x 39. If you decide to go larger, I agree with staying .308 and staying away from the more exotic calibers. You might look at the M1A/M14 or something like a G3. These are more expensive to shoot but have their advantages.

If you are looking for something that will “reach out and touch” with some level of accuracy. Something that you might use for hunting as well as fun at the range, I would stick with either something in the .223 (AR 15 style) or .308 range (personally I prefer the M1A/M14), the AK has the ”punch” out to about 400 yards but it is just not accurate enough beyond short range.

All of this is, of course, just my opinion and I am sure that some will agree with me while others will disagree with me. Bottom line, do your homework and then make you your own mind.
 
#27 ·
Assuming that you are, indeed, looking for a home/self defense weapon I would recommend a pistol or shotgun and not a rifle. Rifles are designed to “reach out and touch” which is not generally needed in a self defense situation.
I agree, home defense, particularly urban area( condo, apt, etc) a shotgun loaded w/ 12ga bird shot.

I have a shotgun beside my bed, and my PS90. I like the PS90 because it is a "hybrid" if you will. Compactness of an extended pistol w/ the accuracy of a rifle up to about 50 yds w/ the standard optic. I live out in the country but I don't have a need to shoot a BG if he is outside my home (unless I want to be the one going to jail for murder.):embarassed:

Also, there are a wide variety of ammo available for the PS90 from standard target type stuff to frangible and light body armor piercing. :gah: And a 50 round mag holds a lot of pain.:blackeye:

The frangible is the best for home defense. Like a shotgun loaded w/ bird shot, it doesn't easily penetrate sheet rock and injure the wife or kids/ neighbors. :hand10:
 
#7 ·
Usages:
Hunting
Self Defense
Snipering (is that a word?)
Target Shooting/Competition

I am putting together an AR 15 for hunting hogs and it will back up as a self defense if the SHTF rifle. I have handgun and shotguns.

If you are hunting deer there really is no need for a semi-auto, hunting Elephant and Dangerous game you need a bigger bullet.
 
#9 ·
News Flash. (heard it on gun TV)
Ruger has recently revamped all of their older tooling for the Mini 14 and tightened up all of the factory specs. - so folks looking for something in a semi-auto rifle might want to check out the newest runs of Mini 14.
 
#11 ·
Hmmmm...at $900 for a rifle with limited parts availibility, limited hi-cap mag availibility and still fairly "finniky"...? Having handled several since they were re-released, the only difference I can "observe" is new rifiling technique, that doesn't sqelch in the last 4" of the blank. For the $$, I would want something that I could reach out with authority (Browning or Rem SA in .30-06, 7mm, etc.,) or an AK.:wink:
 
#10 ·
I'll be excited about Ruger once they get better than "minute of barn" accuracy, drop the prices of their mags, and actually start letting spare factory parts hit the market.


-B
 
#12 ·
Agree on the caliber first principle. Consider exactly what you want the bullets to do, and find the best bullets to do that job; then consider things like ballistics, cost, and availability. Then pick a rifle that will shoot those bullets.
 
#13 ·
Something else to consider...

Have you considered or looked at the SKS? Simple to operate and maintain, reasonably accurate, tough as a rock, affordable, uses fairly cheap ammo that is suitable for hunting deer-sized animals and proven effective against humans (.30 caliber - same round as the AK). Uses an attatched 10-rnd box that loads from stripper-clips, so it's not only "PC," but it's still about as fast as a magazine-fed gun to reload. Everyone (that I know) that has one, loves it - as do I.

Stay safe,

Chuck Brick.
 
#16 ·
Agreed; they're hard to get for that "cheap" here, too - but they still beat any other alternative for the price.
I bought mine nearly 20 years ago for about $80+/- and it was unfired, and not even "cosmolined." A couple years ago, they were only twice that. We have to just "deal with it" best we can and follow the best buys available. Oh, well. That was then - this is now.

Stay safe,

Chuck Brick.
 
#15 ·
I recently purchased a CX4 Storm 45. My reasons were:

I live in an urban area and don't anticipate having to reach out more then 50 ~ 100 yards to ever "touch" somebody.

My decision on caliber was based on own a Glock 36, not wanting to stock another caliber of ammo and it packs a decent punch.

The Storm is compact enough to fill in as a in-home self-defense weapon.

The closest range is an indoor range with only one station for shooting rifle caliber ammo while pistol caliber is allowed on all points so there are more opportunities for practice using a pistol caliber carbine.

Berretta is a company committed to quality.

The CX4 looks intimidating :).
 
#17 ·
1. Should I decide on a caliber first? Or is that a backwards way of shopping for an SA rifle?

2. How can I find the "best" in my price range without paying a premium for mil-spec standards?

3. How do you choose a weapon for home/emergency defense?
I know it is strange to quote myself but this is the best way to comment for me.

1. I think the .223 cartridge is best, just based on the idea that it seems readily available in many places. From what I can tell, the Wolf ammo is pretty affordable for target practice.

2. I am willing to pay about $1,000 for everything, including about 1,000 rounds of ammo.

3. I want this weapon for an emergency, home defense scenario. And I want to have fun learning how to shoot it accurately. :smile:

So I guess I am on the hunt for an AR, chambered for .223, that costs less than $1,000, including the cost of buying about 1K rounds.

You guys think that is feasible?
 
#18 ·
Not sure how else to put this, $1k will not get you a home-defense worthy AR15, mags, and 1k ammo. A thousand rounds is going for over three bills on average for .223, more for 5.56 stuff. Mags are going to run $15 on average, and you'll want at least half a dozen (mags are consumables; when they fail, you throw them out), so that's already $90. We're talking $400-$500 before you even get to the rifle.

For $1,000 total, including both the rifle, mags, and 1k ammo, I'd pass on the AR15 and pick up an AK47 and soft-point personal-defense ammo. A decent AK will run you about $400 and probably include one or two mags, Bulgarian 30-rd magazines go for $15 apiece, and you have a little over $500 left for ammo. I wouldn't call this ideal, because I have concerns about even 7.62x39 softpoint stuff against housing materials, but $1k's not a lot to work with for a HD gun, ammo, and mags.


-B
 
#19 ·
Ruger Mini 14 - Geesh! are they selling for that much now? :blink:
Well, scratch that idea.

I had a Stainless Mini 14 years ago & I bought it because it was inexpensive & Stainless Steel and it was a great rifle to leave up at the cottage where it was damp all the time.
Accuracy was OK for Government Work and it was not finicky regarding ammo at all. I used to plink with it and it was a fun gun.
I traded it when we sold that place. I'll have to dig out my old receipt and see what I paid for it but, it was not a lot.
 
#20 ·
New Ruger Mini's now go for lower/mid-range ARs. Not the inexpensive ranch gun they used to be.


-B
 
#23 ·
I think it depends on how you define some of your terminology. As far as a "peasant" gun goes, yes the design philosophy on the AK is more for ease of maintenance and more tolerance of abuse. The relatively loose fit of parts allows you pretty much burry it in the sand for a few months, dig it up, make sure the bore is clear and use it. You could clean an AK with rags, boot laces and old motor oil.

The AR platform has much tighter tollerances requiring more detailed stripping for cleaning. The trade off is in your maximum effective range for point targets. The precision of the AR design allows for real precision work if you set it up right. My H-Bar that I built for CMP matches is accurate with enough Black Hills match ammo that I can put a scope on it and hit a dime at one hundred yards. That kind of accuracy is not uncommon in AR's but I have never seen it from an AK. I am not saying it is not possible, but I have never seen it.

Either one can be lots of fun to shoot. You just have to have reasonable expectations for the rifle. My Bushy carbine is nowhere near as accurate as my H-Bar, but it is a whole lot of fun to shoot!:bier:
 
#22 ·
Don't get caught up with peasants and skilled soldiers; Spetznaz does pretty good with the AK, and I think they rate as "skilled soldiers". You're the end user, so what it comes down to is what your requirements are for the caliber and rifle. The convenient thing about both the AK and AR is both are battle-proven. Just make sure your rifle is reliable and durable enough to practice often with and you'll be golden. A $1k limit for the whole kit effectively guarantees a quality AR is out of the question.


-B
 
#24 ·
Sounds to me like an SKS would do the trick for you. Reliable, easy to use. Accurate enough for practical work, though not a match gun. If you buy a tapco stock for it you can use removable albeit expensive magazines. In the meantime a fixed magazine and stripper clips works fine.

I just ordered an AR kit and ended up spending $165 on the lower and $690 on a rock river rifle kit. I'm a student so you can bet I shopped like crazy, but I couldn't find a way to save enough money to do what you're trying to with an AR.

My solution is to buy the AR and a little bit of ammo, then more ammo as I save more money. I can slowly improve my ammo stockpile, but can't slowly improve the gun. So I'll start with a decent gun and then stock up.

Of course that relies on the assumption that I don't need more than a few hundred rounds in the next few months.
 
#25 ·
I have to agree - AK-47 will meet the home defense purpose (unless you home has a huge viking hall over 400 yards). I will fit into the budget of $1000US. Figure 650 for a top of the line AK and about 250 or so for 1k rounds of 7.62x39. Pick up a sling and some cleaning supplies and you have your grand spent!
 
#26 ·
$1000 can easily buy you a decent AK, a case of ammo, and some mags...

At the ranges where most of us have any chance of needing a rifle for actual defensive use, the AK will do everything the AR will do.
 
#33 ·
The majority of AR15s are going to be chambered in .223 Rem or have a Wylde chamber. Rifles chambered in .223 Remington are specced to meet SAAMI standards, which I think are 50,000 CUP. Rifles chambered for 5.56x45 NATO are specced to meet higher NATO standards, which are higher in pressure (60,000 CUP) and involve a longer throat than the .223 chambered rifles to accommodate the generally longer 5.56 NATO bullets. I don't know much about Wylde chambers, but I believe they are SAAMI specced but have longer, 5.56-like throats so they're a little better at accommodating the NATO caliber.

Bear in mind that the marking on the rifle does not guarantee the it will be chambered in that caliber. Several companies have been marking 5.56 on their firearms for years despite them being chambered in .223 Rem or having Wylde chambers. Most of the biggest manufacturers are guilty of this (Bushmaster, DPMS, Olympic Arms, Rock River Arms, Stag, and the various kit gun manufacturers). The best thing to do if you're concerned about not having a 5.56-chambered rifle is to send it to a qualified gunsmith with a 5.56 reamer and have them go over the rifle. If you don't expect to be shooting a lot of 5.56 ammunition, a .223 or Wylde chamber is likely to be sufficient. Just watch the pressures if you're reloading or using hotter ammo.


-B
 
#35 ·
For the money, it's almost impossible to beat an AK. Or even one of their clones like Saiga. They're so reliable that words fail me...they chew up any kind of ammo in any conditions and they're a blast to shoot. If you're so concerned about long range accuracy then buy a nice deer rifle or build a sniper rifle in 308...optics are paramount for shooting distances any further than an AR or AK can handle. They're short barreled assault rifles made for close range fighting...not for distance shooting. Can you slap a huge scope on one and a bi-pod?? Sure...but why would you? You'd be far better served with a weapon that is designed for that intended purpose, and the intended purpose of an AR or an AK is combat...not tack driving.
 
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