Bullpup Pluses and Minuses?

This is a discussion on Bullpup Pluses and Minuses? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm thinking about a semi-auto 5.56 carbine and had a couple of questions: 1. Any reasons not to get a bullpup style weapon vs a ...

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Thread: Bullpup Pluses and Minuses?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Bullpup Pluses and Minuses?

    I'm thinking about a semi-auto 5.56 carbine and had a couple of questions:

    1. Any reasons not to get a bullpup style weapon vs a more traditional AR type?
    2. What bullpups (if any) use a piston vs. direct impingement?

    Thanks.

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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    From what I hear there is no such thing as a bullpup with a decent trigger.

    If it weren't for the fact that ARs are it when it comes to parts availability, or the fact that they are over twice the price as an AR, I'd love an AUG clone.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
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    BAC
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    For your first question, crappy triggers, slower reloads, less real (rail space) estate for hardware without significant design changes needed, and on most case ejection occurs on the side. I say most because the newer bullpups seem to be coming up with more innovative ways of not screwing over left-handed shooters. The first three items I mentioned are universal.

    Your second question is harder to answer. The FN F2000, IMI Tavor, Khaybar KH2002, QBZ-95, SA-80 series, SAR 21, Steyr AUG, all use the same operation as the AR15/M16 (the French FAMAS is the odd one out using a lever delayed blowback system), just different implementation. Remember that the AR15 still uses a gas piston system: Cliff Notes version - the gas flows back through the gas tube and pushes back against a piston that drives the bolt carrier group rearward. The only difference between the system used by the AR15 and, say the AK47 is that the piston itself is designed differently. Eugene Stoner broke from tradition and created as system that was lighter and more conducive to accuracy than the prior piston assemblies of other gas piston rifles. I believe the Khaybar KH2002 and VHS assualt rifle are the only bullpup rifles whose gas piston system mimics the AR15's, and all others use a more traditional piston system.


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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    An original AUG is it. The new MSAR is staggering along through retrofits. It has a unique manual of arms, but is pretty much the best-of. The FN may be equal, but I haven't played with one, nor do I know wanyone owning one. I would prefer the FN 2000 because of the ejection, if all other factors were equal.

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    Member Array Geezer58's Avatar
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    Then there's this guy's take on bullpups: The AnarchAngel: Why bullpups are a persistently bad idea

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    Senior Member Array Knuckledrager's Avatar
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    The FN is so so. Manual of arms is about the same as the AUG. Trigger is still crappy. I didn't find the ejection to be a plus or minus. All things being equal, if I had to have a rifle with that config, I would stick with the AUG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    An original AUG is it. The new MSAR is staggering along through retrofits. It has a unique manual of arms, but is pretty much the best-of. The FN may be equal, but I haven't played with one, nor do I know wanyone owning one. I would prefer the FN 2000 because of the ejection, if all other factors were equal.
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    Member Array NonSenCe's Avatar
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    bullpup: handy in tight confines as its generally shorter than others.
    hated the action beeing near my ear and cheek. might get used to it thou after a while.

    would prefer "normal" weapon still.
    AK type for me.

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    i like bulpups. more control of the weapon, easier handleing, perfect amount of rail space for me(i don't add stuff i don't use), and i can reload it just as fast.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Keep in mind your ears are nearer that muzzle; wear really good hearing protection! On the crappy trigger subject, I wonder if an electronic trigger would be feasible. High-end racing bicycles now use wireless electronic shifting, and road bike shifters need several pounds of pressure to operate, at the derailleur end. I am not sure how soon I would be willing to bet my life on an electronic trigger, but for range fun, why not? I reckon that there could be a manual over-ride mode for emergency use.

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    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    I'm looking at a Mossberg 500 Bullpup 5+1
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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    On the crappy trigger subject, I wonder if an electronic trigger would be feasible. High-end racing bicycles now use wireless electronic shifting, and road bike shifters need several pounds of pressure to operate, at the derailleur end. I am not sure how soon I would be willing to bet my life on an electronic trigger, but for range fun, why not? I reckon that there could be a manual over-ride mode for emergency use.
    Yeah, I think the obvious problem, as you mentioned, is reliability. Personally I wouldn't want to spend $1000s on a rifle that I didn't trust to work in the unlikely event that I needed it for SD.

    On a $300 .22lr, sure
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
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    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    The only downside to bullpups is the ejection design for left handed people. I think the AUG ejects downward but I could be wrong. The L85 is said to be a downright good bullpup and I have seen a DPMS bullpup. I would like to have a bullpup someday because they have longer barrels and for that reason alone inheritly better accuracy.
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    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    The L85 is said to be a downright good bullpup and I have seen a DPMS bullpup.
    Took a couple tries and a foreign company completely reworking it, but the Brits like it alright now. SAS still prefer the MP5 and C8, allegedly.

    I would like to have a bullpup someday because they have longer barrels and for that reason alone inheritly better accuracy.
    Bullpup barrels are no longer than non-bullpup rifle barrels. It's the overall length that shortens. Adding length to the bullpup rifle defeats the purpose of the bullpup.


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