Aiming / Sighting a NEW EOTech

This is a discussion on Aiming / Sighting a NEW EOTech within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I got myself a new 552 A65/1 for Christmas to mount atop my S&W M&P15X Product: 552.A65/1 I figure I'll throw out here all the ...

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Thread: Aiming / Sighting a NEW EOTech

  1. #1
    Member Array DblTap's Avatar
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    Aiming / Sighting a NEW EOTech

    I got myself a new 552 A65/1 for Christmas to mount atop my S&W M&P15X
    Product: 552.A65/1

    I figure I'll throw out here all the specs I have so to help with a response.
    The rifle is a flat top receiver with a 16" 1-9 barrel, with an A2 post front sight and a Troy Folding Battle rear sight.
    Product: M&P15X

    I've had the rifle two months now and have run over 500 rounds using the iron sights. At 25 yards I have a great grouping but from 50, I have a tough time getting all 20 rounds in a 8.5 x 11 target and at 100 yards a full size 24 x 36 target looks like shotgun spray.

    A lot of this is due to 47 year old eyes, I can see clearly at distance but when sighting a local sight vs distance things go bad.

    Sooooooo.
    I did what I said I wouldn't and 3 weeks ago bought an EOTech after a bunch of research, with the expectation that I would pick up a 3X in the future to get some (zoom in help) for the distance shots. GG&G was great to work with and correct in predicting when they would have the product in stock and ship.
    GG&G EOTech Sights

    Ok, so these are the products I'm working with here, these are my sight limitations, and here is the problem... or maybe LACK of problem.
    I thought the EOTechs were a true "scope" of sorts, in other words that they did not rely on a front sight or a rear sight to "co-witness". But ..... with the weapon resting in shooting blocks, and sighting through the 552 the 1MOA aiming dot moves all over the place as I move my cheek position on the stock, keep in mind the weapon is not moving at all. ?!? This leads me to believe the 552 MUST be co-witnessed with the front site. ? Is this correct? If not, then the exact cheek to stock position would have to be replicated for every shot. I see that as being an impossibility for even the most experienced shooter. Am I missing something? I've gone over the instructions several times and looked everywhere for an answer before asking. As a co-witness the 552 would be nothing more than a rear sight. It just doesn't make sense to me.
    Granted I have not had a day I can go to the range and shoot yet, these observations have been from my property where I can sight over 100 yards, I just can't fire here.

    How do YOU aim your EOTech?
    Do you sight it with the front sight?
    Do you co-witness with a rear and front sight?
    Is adding the 3X-FTS going to make this even worse?
    Have I mounted the 552 wrong?
    Frustrated !


    Picture Below:
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...d-dsc00113.jpg
    Ritalin - So much easier than parenting.

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  3. #2
    Member Array smotta's Avatar
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    The unusual part about the holo sights from eotechs are, that even though it looks like it's moving all over the place, that's where the round is going to go.

    It takes some getting used to, but you'll love it once you get it all dialed in.
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

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    The EOTech does not need to be co-witnessed, nor does it need to be in line with anything else on the rifle. Mount it, and ignore all the other sighting apparatus.

    Zero it at 25 yards by mounting it solidly where it is comfortable for you, firing three shots, and then adjusting the scope using the screws. The arrows point in the direction you want the strike of the rounds to move, i.e. if your rounds are hitting left of the targer, turn the screw in the "R" direction.

    Then, shoot away. The center dot will ALWAYS be at the point of aim, no matter what it looks like to you. Even if the glass breaks or gets covered with mud/snow/whatever, the reticle will move to any un-covered area and will still be zeroed.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    The other responses are right. It's supposed to move. Next time you have it on the bench, look at where the dot is on the target. Now, move your head slightly. See where the dot is? It is right over the same part of the target even though your head moved. The dot follows the aim of the gun, not the position of your head. Once you get used to that, start shooting with both eyes open.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I just tried this recently, put it dead on an object ... and then moved all around (not the gun, but myself & the angle I was looking at it) , and no matter what.... the dot was still dead on with what I originally aimed it at.

    I really liked it.

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    Q ~ This leads me to believe the 552 MUST be co-witnessed with the front site. ? Is this correct?
    A ~ No

    If not, then the exact cheek to stock position would have to be replicated for every shot.
    Answer ~ No


    I see that as being an impossibility for even the most experienced shooter.
    Am I missing something?

    Answer ~ Yes, you are missing something.

    The EOTech is not a scope. Do not look through it.
    Do not "look" at the reticle.
    Keep both eyes open and both eyes focused out at your intended target.
    Do not focus on the EOTech or on the lighted reticle.

    You should focus on your intended target and the reticle will superimpose itself on the target out at the target.

    Once you get the hang of it you'll knock yourself on the head like you just had a V8 moment.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    The eotech is a wonderful sight. I have debated getting an ACOG, but honestly don't really think I need it. I can hit very quickly on the 150 meter target gong which is about 18" at the range I go to pretty often. I have thought about maybe getting a magnifier, but again, not really necessary, and the rifle is already pretty weighty as it is.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Am I missing something?

    Answer ~ Yes, you are missing something.

    The EOTech is not a scope. Do not look through it.
    Do not "look" at the reticle.
    Keep both eyes open and both eyes focused out at your intended target.
    Do not focus on the EOTech or on the lighted reticle.

    You should focus on your intended target and the reticle will superimpose itself on the target out at the target.

    Once you get the hang of it you'll knock yourself on the head like you just had a V8 moment.
    One added thing that wasn't made real clear in previous posts...... When using an EOTech or an AimPoint....... Shoot with both eyes OPEN focusing like QK says above. If you've been using iron sights or a normal powered scope, this may take some getting used to.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Senior Member Array Sarge45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Q ~ This leads me to believe the 552 MUST be co-witnessed with the front site. ? Is this correct?
    A ~ No

    If not, then the exact cheek to stock position would have to be replicated for every shot.
    Answer ~ No


    I see that as being an impossibility for even the most experienced shooter.
    Am I missing something?

    Answer ~ Yes, you are missing something.

    The EOTech is not a scope. Do not look through it.
    Do not "look" at the reticle.
    Keep both eyes open and both eyes focused out at your intended target.
    Do not focus on the EOTech or on the lighted reticle.

    You should focus on your intended target and the reticle will superimpose itself on the target out at the target.

    Once you get the hang of it you'll knock yourself on the head like you just had a V8 moment.
    Absolutely correct. You will love the Eotech when you get it figured out. It may help also to turn down the brightness so the dot doesn't "splatter" so bad.

    Good luck.

  11. #10
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    Ditto Sarge45

    Once you get the hang of it...that is when you'll really appreciate the reticle brighter/dimmer adjustment feature.

  12. #11
    Member Array DblTap's Avatar
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    Well a quick follow up - range report (it's half time)
    Grab'd my son, the AR, his new 870 & the 40's and after an unsuccessful stop at Wally Werld for buckshot we got to the range.

    A twin target setup at 25 yrds and I put 5 rnds in each. Once the lanes went cold we walked down and found 2 groups the size of a nickel both 1 1/2" low and 3" to the left of the target center. Awesome, nice tight group!
    So I pull out the EOTech manual to confirm windage & elevation adjustments and read the adjustments as:
    1/4" @ 50 yrds / click and 1/2" @ 100 yrds / click.
    So I do the math and adjust elevation 12 clicks up and 24 clicks to the right. (based on 25 yrds)
    With clean targets, the 2nd round placements confirm a duplicate grouping (1 1/2" low and 3" to the left. What the heck ???

    I decide to turn off the EOTech this time and adjust the azimuth the same direction but only 6 clicks up and 12 clicks to the right.
    Again with two new 8 1/2x11 targets the test results are the same. It's just not adjusting.
    So we decide not to waste the entire day and my boy and I run 200 rounds of UMC thru the 40's and pack it up.
    I'm going to give EOTech a call / email / whatever they do in the morning and try to get some answers. It's mounted securely, fresh batts, very good Speer ammo, cleaned and well lubed weapon. .... always something!

    As far as sighting / aiming, no kidding, the 552 was point and shoot, no co-witness, just an awesome sight. Can't wait to get this thing dialed in as it made target acquisition a breeze, just like everyone said.

    I'll post up a few pics soon.
    Ritalin - So much easier than parenting.

  13. #12
    Lead Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by DblTap View Post
    As far as sighting / aiming, no kidding, the 552 was point and shoot, no co-witness, just an awesome sight. Can't wait to get this thing dialed in as it made target acquisition a breeze, just like everyone said.

    I'll post up a few pics soon.
    Hate to say "told you so!"
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    I don't know about the eotech, but Trijicon recommends physically smacking the acog to "set" your changes. Perhaps there is some "trick of the trade" that you're missing?

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    No smacking required. Just make sure, as with all things, that it is mounted securely and check on it on occasion, especially if you do rapid fire on occasion.

  16. #15
    Member Array DblTap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Hate to say "told you so!"
    Yes you did.

    Well Monday I emailed EOTech about the unit not zeroing in. Pretty much summed up everything I stated above. Havn't heard back yet, but I'm sure I will.
    Ritalin - So much easier than parenting.

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