My AR mystery

My AR mystery

This is a discussion on My AR mystery within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So I have been looking at Ar's lately and cant believe how popular they are. The last story i heard about them was that they ...

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Thread: My AR mystery

  1. #1
    Member Array cheezewhiz6's Avatar
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    My AR mystery

    So I have been looking at Ar's lately and cant believe how popular they are. The last story i heard about them was that they were un reliable and suck in the dirt. Please help me understand my mis conception.


  2. #2
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    Many still believe this. However I think with the current usage in conflicts by our military and others we would hear more about failures of the M16 variant. Back during Vietnam no cleaning kits were issued , gunpowder specs were changed for ammo and it was a new weapon in a nasty environment.
    Studies show keeping the rifle bolt assembly well lubed helped prevent failures during torture tests.
    Also some companies have gone to piston operated cycling as opposed to the original direct impingement design.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    They are not unreliable. They were however designed for the wet humid jungle conditions of south east asia so dirt and dust and what not can sometimes be a problem if not maintained. But from what I hear rhe soldiers in the middle east tend to like theirs. You just have to take care of your rifle and it will take care of you.
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    I chose the AR platform because it's modular and easily worked on. It's also easy to keep running well just by maintaining it well - proper cleaning and lubrication goes a long way. As the main battle rifle of the U.S. there's also a lot of local expertise from which we can draw upon... current and former soldiers, LEO's, manufacturers, etc.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Member Array joffe's Avatar
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    They're unreliable.. If you don't clean them. Kinda a nobrainer.

    The DI design (poops where it eats) obviously isn't ideal, but all it means is you need to clean it more. It shouldn't be an issue if you treat it properly. If you're really worried about it just get a piston AR. All kinda companies providing that now, LWRC, LMT, etc..

    10-8 Forums: Pretty good M4 article

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    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    All the problems I've had with M16's, M4's and ARs have been magazine related.

    Wanna know a weapon that sucks in the dust? A GAU 21 .50 cal open bolt aircraft machine gun. That thing NEEDS lube to run. Lube attracts dirt, so it wont run. No lube and it won't run. Catch 21 over here. The XM218 (aircraft M2 basically) also sucks, but it's not quite as sensitive as the GAU. I stick a rag in the feed tray to help keep dust out when it's not loaded.
    -Ryan

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    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Well I can say this about the "dirty" AR. I was at blackwater in Moyock NC and one of the instructors, Erin Roberts, decided to see how many rounds he could put through his AR before it malfunctioned. 15,000 estimated rounds later before a malfunction. He didn't clean it, but he did pull out the bolt and lubricate it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    Wanna know a weapon that sucks in the dust? A GAU 21 .50 cal open bolt aircraft machine gun.
    I know that is why I quit carrying mine. Plus, it is a pain to find a nice leather holster for that thing....
    Gonzo
    Last edited by srfl; January 8th, 2009 at 11:33 PM.
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    Member Array dreyerba's Avatar
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    the m16a1 sucked the m16a2, m16a4, m4 and ar15 are all good weapons. I had a m16a2 the first time I came to Iraq I cleaned it not as much as I should have but it always went bang when I pulled the trigger. I have an m4 over here now and it goes bang when I pull the trigger and I just lube it up.

    99% of the problem I have heard about then over here have come down to one of 3 problems the weapon was really dirty, bad ammo, or a bad mag. and yes you will always have a parts go bad or have a weapon that is is messed up when you have millions of them.

    over all they are good weapons (except for the size round but that is just me) I personally will not own one that is just cause I don't care for assault style rifles, However they do the job they were mad for.
    Bryan A Dreyer
    Sgt USMC/US Army
    .45 ACP

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    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    I bought an AR-15 because I got tired of turning the target into swiss cheese with my Romanian AK-47. I knew the AR was an accurate weapon system and low recoil after shooting a couple Bushmasters and a Colt. I avoided buying one for the longest time after seeing my Dad spend an hour cleaning his Colt Sporter AR, and saw all these little parts laying on his workbench, thinking it was complicated to field strip one. Then I started researching a bit, watched a few field strip videos on youtube, and realized it was quite simple to field strip.

    I am so glad I bought one!
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    Senior Moderator
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    So I have been looking at Ar's lately and cant believe how popular they are. The last story i heard about them was that they were un reliable and suck in the dirt. Please help me understand my mis conception.
    Unreliable compared to what?
    Sucks in the dirt compared to what?

    Everything sucks in the dirt. Some suck more than others.

    The AK can take more dirt because of the loose tolerances. As a result of that, it is nowhere near as accurate.

    The AR is alot tighter, and because of that needs more maintenance. It is accurate enough that heashots are not uncommon at normal ranges. Its true that you have to keep it clean and pay attention to it, but if I can engage an enemy at a longer range than his weapon can be reasonably accurate at, I'll take the trade off. I have a better chance of survival than he does, and to me its worth it.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Part of the bad reputation of AR's goes all the way back to the Kennedy administration. The first M-16 rifles and AR-15's did not have the forward bolt assist that the A1 and later designs have. If you got a little dirt or carbon or whatever on or in your bolt group or barrel extension there was no way to help the bolt go into battery. You now had a club until you stripped it and cleaned it or fixed your bayonette and had a nice spear. A big part of the problem was the ammo. The gas system of the rifle was designed to use cartridges using a particular type of propellant. Government operations being what they are, ammunition was purchased and shipped that used the wrong kind of propellant.
    On top of this we have the new wonder rifles being distributed without cleaning kits to a tropical jungle environment. Ordnance did some studies and determined a lot of issues could be prevented by giving the rifle chrome lined bores and chambers. The best and the brightest back in D.C. said that was not possible because if the rifles needed that, Gene Stoner in his infinite wisdom and knowledge would have specified that in his original design.
    Update the design a little, perform maintenance when needed, it's a great rifle!
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  13. #13
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    Well, I'm in Iraq right now, about as dirty of a place as I've seen (CAX is a close second), haven't had any problems with my A4, I did order a bunch of PMAG's which seem better than the issued ones, but with a little regular maintenance it goes bang every time.

    Most of the failures I have seen were someone running the gun completely dry (no lube), or with bad mags.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  14. #14
    Member Array Th12t33n's Avatar
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    i loved my AR... sadly shes gone =(

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    Depends on what you are using them for...Varminting and longe range stuff (600 yards or so) they are fantastic...For a combat weapon (250yds and in) wouldn't trust one ever again... (6 years in South America...They were CRAP own there)...The AK is by far the most tested, reliable and rugged combat rifle ever produced. Period. Hit anything past 300 yards? Probably not...LOL... The AR in the 6.5 Grendel from Alexandar Arms and the 6.8SPC are FAR superior to the crappy 5.56 Nato round...Definitely some nice stuff from AA and DPMS (See the new Sportical...$699!!!!) Stag and a host of others and they are fun to Accessorize....Just use them for what they are intended and they are one fine platform. Just don't expect them to perform like an AK in crappy situations. They don't and never will.

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