Defensive rifle or defensive Shotgun?

[ccw9mm]

Has anyone ever taken a shotgun to walling material?

Box O' Truth did: click.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Siafu]

Perhaps this Turkish .410 AR that appeared at SHOT will be a good choice for home defense. I read that it will be importing this year. Looks interesting.

[chuck brick]

Should I get a defensive rifle, or a shotgun?


I am set with handguns - (have 5 in various calibers).

Opinions?

FYI I do reload with a Dillion 550B, if that bit of info helps anyone.

Consider a pistol-caliber carbine. As you're set with handguns, and reload, you'll get maximum performance for minimum investment. For example, the High-Point (I know, I know; it's cheap - but it works) or the Beretta CX-Storm, both 9mm semi-autos, or a lever-action in .357 Mag (also uses .38's, of course). Either caliber from a 16+" barrel is far more than a handgun delivers, but with minimal recoil and without the extreme range concerns of a rifle. Still effective to about 100 yards (but that's not ususally considered self-defense outside of a war-zone).
Just a thought.

Stay safe,

Chuck Brick.

[BAC]

Box O' Truth did: click.

Good demonstration. Not perfect, but good. I wish they'd have used a better .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO than XM193 (Barnes TSX, Hornady TAP, Nosler HPBT, Sierra MatchKings would all be better choices than standard ball in any weight grain). The results from handgun rounds should also be noted, and these are more consistent among different brands than are rifle rounds.

Edit: Saifu, that is really, really cool. I want two (one to SBR). Any word on price?


-B

[cvhoss]

If I could have only one firearm, it would be a shotgun because it can do it all. It works for defense, can take small game, flying game and with slugs do the work of a rifle. If a shotgun has any weakness, it's the sheer bulk of the ammo.

The only drawback to buying the shotgun now instead of the rifle is that you may not be able to buy the rifle a year from now but will probably still be able to buy the shotgun.

And don't knock your little 22 rifle. In a true SHTF scenario, it may become your most prized asset especially when you consider that you can carry literally thousands of rounds of ammo in one 50 cal. ammo can.

Hoss

[TapRackBang]

I like the Mossberg 590 for home defense over a rifle. Reguardless of the make of shotgun, this is the ammo to get for it.



Using 00 buck at 10 yards and in and you have the same results as a slug, 15 to almost 20 yards and you can still cover the pattern with a DVD disk. I shot a man sized target at 50 yards and had 7 of 9 pellets in the target.

This is from DTI's John Farnam's Quips - Year 2007


Field-use of Federal Flight-Control 00 Buckshot:
09 Sept 07

Field use of Federal 12ga Flight-Control Buckshot, from a range officer with a large Midwestern PD:

"Last week, one of our patrol officers confronted a single, armed, robbery suspect at a range of ten meters. When the suspect made threatening verbalizations and gestures, the officer fired a single shot from his department-issued Remington 870. The round was Federal Flight-Control 00 Buckshot.

The tight cluster of 00 pellets struck the suspect in the right side of his hip. He went right down, offering no further resistance. At the hospital, attending sturgeons asked if the suspect had been hit with a slug. We assured them that it was a single, buckshot round.

X-rays revealed that several pellets were still in the suspects's body, but that most had transverse-penetrated and subsequently exited. Tissue destruction was copious, so much so that the suspect's right leg had to be amputated at the hip. He is expected to survive, but has obviously sustained permanent, disabling/disfiguring injury.

We are most please with this round's fight-stopping ability. This suspect went from dangerous/threatening to meek/crippled, all in less than a second!"

Comment: It is difficult to imagine a better fight-stopping effect than described in the foregoing. Federal's new wad technology represents a pivotal improvement in shotshell performance, breathing new life into the "old-standby" police shotgun. Something we all need to look at seriously!

/John

So as it turns out, in court the bad guy didn't have a leg to stand on...lol... I crack myself up

[DMan]

An interesting post in here about a pistol caliber carbine, I actually have a Mech Tech carbine conversion for my 1911 (.45). Never used it much, and needs a little maintenance.

[Chuck R.]

Good demonstration. Not perfect, but good. I wish they'd have used a better .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO than XM193 (Barnes TSX, Hornady TAP, Nosler HPBT, Sierra MatchKings would all be better choices than standard ball in any weight grain). The results from handgun rounds should also be noted, and these are more consistent among different brands than are rifle rounds.

Edit: Saifu, that is really, really cool. I want two (one to SBR). Any word on price?


-B

Here's a couple articles that test suitable HD ammo in ARs.

"Penetration tests conducted by department range staff and several other highly respected experts have resulted in the following conclusions (see accompanying chart for numbers):
"The first thing you notice is the startling over-penetration of the typical jacketed hollowpoint pistol bullet once its nose is packed with an inert substance. The second thing you notice is that the over-penetration effect of .223 rifle ammo may have been highly over-rated.
Selecting Home Defense Ammunition | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

Here's another:

Results

Caliber Testing medium Penetration Condition of bullet
.223 Rem. gelatin only 9.5" two pieces
.223 Rem. wall & gelatin 5.5" * fragmented
.40S&W gelatin only 13.5" mushroomed
.40S&W wall & gelatin 22" * no deformation
.40S&W wall & gelatin 22" * no deformation
.40S&W wall & gelatin 19.5" * slight deformation
12 ga. wall & gelatin 27.5" mushroomed
* these measurements do not include penetration of the 6" wall.
CCI Gold Dot.

Summary
The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the over penetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition.

The hollow point cavity in the .40S&W round filled with material when shot through the wall. This caused [these bullets] to fail to expand when they entered the gelatin. As a result, they penetrated 8.5" farther than when shot directly into the gelatin.

When the .223 [HP] was shot through he wall it began to fragment and as a result penetrated the gelatin only 5.5".

Because the .223 [HP] begins to break up on impact, it has less potential for damage or injury than the 12 ga. in the event of a ricochet. The .223 [HP] is obviously safer in an urban environment than the 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot.

Olympic Arms, Inc. - Real World .223 Testing d=26


Chuck