Interesting in-home SD 12 ga "shoot-out" on TV

Interesting in-home SD 12 ga "shoot-out" on TV

This is a discussion on Interesting in-home SD 12 ga "shoot-out" on TV within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Last night on the TV, Self Defense TV, was a penetration test using 3 in line residential wall simulations on which would pass through certain ...

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Thread: Interesting in-home SD 12 ga "shoot-out" on TV

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    Member Array flaboatbum's Avatar
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    Interesting in-home SD 12 ga "shoot-out" on TV

    Last night on the TV, Self Defense TV, was a penetration test using 3 in line residential wall simulations on which would pass through certain rounds.

    Two layers of sheet rock board on 2X4 farmes were fired at using 1) Bird Shot 2) .00 Buckshot and 3) A slug. No insulation material between the frames.

    The test revealed that bird shot does just fine with dimples on the
    2nd wall with a 3" dia hole in the first wall....not bad at 10 feet. The .00 passed through first wall and 50% exited through 2nd "wall"
    The slug pentrated all three with ease. The conclusion by the TV hosts was for in home SD, Bird shot is a pretty good choice if collateral damges is a fear.


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    Bird shot might not overpenetrate walls, but it isn't really gonna penetrate human flesh and organs well either.

    No surprise that the slug went straight through.

    General consensus seems to be the somewhere between #4 buck and 00 are the recommended loads for SD, as they give enough penetration against a target, of course you always have to be aware of what is beyond your target.

    But birdshot is best left for birds.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    X2 on what Buckeye said.
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

    - Thomas Jefferson

    "I'm the arrow, you're my bow, shoot me forth and I will go"

    "Do not let any individual posts put a knot in your Big Boy Under-Roos"

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Bird shot might not overpenetrate walls, but it isn't really gonna penetrate human flesh and organs well either.

    No surprise that the slug went straight through.

    General consensus seems to be the somewhere between #4 buck and 00 are the recommended loads for SD, as they give enough penetration against a target, of course you always have to be aware of what is beyond your target.

    But birdshot is best left for birds.
    +3. Words to live by.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

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    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    Yeah... if the round won't penetrate sheetrock... why in the world would I expect it to penetrate heavy outer clothing, skin, possibly bone, and then still have enough power to distrupt the CNS or major organs?

    I'll stick with the 00 buck and make sure I follow one of the 4 safety rules: Know your target and what is beyond it.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Bird shot might not overpenetrate walls, but it isn't really gonna penetrate human flesh and organs well either.
    Not true at all. Inside a house, at relatively close range bird shot is very effective against humans. I have seen with my own eyes what #7 bird shot will do to a person from 12 to 15 feet away. It is rather devastating to the human body. It produces a shredded type wound.

    Don't discount bird shot. It is much more potent than you think.
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    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    It is rather devastating to the human body. It produces a shredded type wound.
    Would I like to be shot with birdshot? No way!

    Does it reach vital organs and provide enough shock to reliably stop a person? I'd think while really messy and sometimes lethal, bird shot couldn't be depended on to stop an attacker.


    Statistics I've seen show birdshot to penetrate 6" of ballistic gel with 12" considered lethal. Short penetration is due to the small mass of each individual pellet.

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    Member Array kingdaddyoh's Avatar
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    Never underestimate the "shock value" of a shotgun blast be it bird shot or 00. Milk jugs and sheetrock can't demonstrate that. I've never heard of someone needing a second dose to calm them down.

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    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    An EMT on this forum posted about arriving on the scene of a gunshot call and the victim, who had been shot at close range with birdshot, stood up from his seat on the porch and walked to the curb to meet the ambulance.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

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    The distance and choke is the key. At close or point blank ranges, bird shot is going to tear you up. Put any distance in the puzzle, and bird shot loses its momentum rather quick; it has no mass. A tight choke will provide a completly different result than an open choke. So,there can be two right answers to this question.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array alelks's Avatar
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    I would love to see those who think birdshot is "good" to use it to stop a ragine wild pig that's charging at you.

    My opinion is simple.

    If I can reasonably expect it to stop my example above... it is likely to work on a drug-crazed attacker. And if it can do that... it can stop the more likely attacker.

    Call me crazy... but a violent encounter is already hard enough. This is one place where one would want to overcompensate on the tool to help all it can to get you pass the encounter.

    Buckshot for me... thank you. And in some cases even slugs are better.

    I may miss... but I PLAN to hit. So the idea of having "less" just in case "I miss" seems too much like somebody is "planning" to miss.

    Either way... do what is best for you.
    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm” - George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdaddyoh View Post
    Never underestimate the "shock value" of a shotgun blast be it bird shot or 00. Milk jugs and sheetrock can't demonstrate that. I've never heard of someone needing a second dose to calm them down.
    I know of a guy wearing a leather jacket was shot 9 times was rolled down the street from impact and escaped the shooter. Spent alot of time picking pellets out of his back
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Not true at all. Inside a house, at relatively close range bird shot is very effective against humans. I have seen with my own eyes what #7 bird shot will do to a person from 12 to 15 feet away. It is rather devastating to the human body. It produces a shredded type wound.

    Don't discount bird shot. It is much more potent than you think.
    Mike, with respect, it can cause a nasty looking wound, however, the shot can disperse rapidly and doesn't get much over-all penetration. Would I wanna take a load of birdshot in the chest, heck no, especially not up close. But if someone is trying to cause you harm, you want to eliminate that threat as quickly as possible.

    Why not go with some buckshot that increases the effective range so that they don't need to get as close to you, its the main advantage a longarm gives you , range and stand off distance.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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    Make mine an AR with 75gr bullets

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