Shotgun vs Lever vs AR - Page 2

Shotgun vs Lever vs AR

This is a discussion on Shotgun vs Lever vs AR within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sure, get the Marlin, I own several used mainly for cowboy action shooting, but great guns, especially after a bit of slicking up. With a ...

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Thread: Shotgun vs Lever vs AR

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    Sure, get the Marlin, I own several used mainly for cowboy action shooting, but great guns, especially after a bit of slicking up. With a bit of practice they can run pretty fast. Know a couple of cowboy can put out 10 rds in 2 seconds, hitting their targets too.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolivar View Post
    It has no penetration, (about 3 inches). Not a good self defense load. go to box of truth

    Birdshot as a Defense Load
    I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

    We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

    A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

    In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

    Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.


    steve
    Not sure if your post is aimed at me or not, but I think I'm the only one who mentioned #8 shot with the Winchester AA12FL8 shells. I was NOT recommending those shells for an actual defensive load, I was recommending them for practice. If she ever actually has to shoot someone, she won't care if it's loaded with 3 1/2" magnums as she'll never feel the recoil but you don't have to load it with mag shells just for practice.

    Hoss
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  3. #18
    Member Array Smoke's Avatar
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    I have a Winchester 94 in 30-30 that I can flip through 5 shots in 6 inches at 50 yards in just about 4 seconds. I've practiced with it a lot, hey, it's a cowboy gun.
    I love the AR but it is more expensive, still saving now for one.
    I have a Mossy Shot gun also, and really believe in it but I'm the only person in the house that will use it because of the recoil. Wife and daughter both said no after a couple shots.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    Not sure if your post is aimed at me or not, but I think I'm the only one who mentioned #8 shot with the Winchester AA12FL8 shells. I was NOT recommending those shells for an actual defensive load, I was recommending them for practice. If she ever actually has to shoot someone, she won't care if it's loaded with 3 1/2" magnums as she'll never feel the recoil but you don't have to load it with mag shells just for practice.

    Hoss
    I totally concur with Hoss. My wife has shot so many boxes of 8 shot at small moving targets that I'll gurantee you don't want her shootin at you. She is to the point where she can both instinctively shoot and handle any type of malfunction or loading issues. That is where all shooters need to be with their weapons. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to get there with a shotgun. 100 rnds for under $25.

    BTW - as to the OP, the Stoeger 12ga double gun is gonna kick pretty good for a smaller person or woman, even with bird shot. With Buckshot, well you can figure that out. I've had two of them and they are durable and simple to use, but after 100 rnd clays shoot, my shoulder would be sore for a few days. The 20ga wasn't bad at all, mainly becuase it is built a lot heavier than a 20ga sxs should be built.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  5. #20
    Member Array stolivar's Avatar
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    Smile Sorry

    But no where did you mention anything about practice. Many would make the mistake and assume you might have meant something else.

  6. #21
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    I honestly don't think that you could go wrong with any of the three choices. All three can be used to great effect as a HD weapon.

    The stoeger coachgun's are great weapons. They feel really nice in your hands, are and very maneuverable inside structures. The downsides to it are the capacity, and the recoil. The kick is pretty stout, although you could use reduced recoil rounds. Also after you load the weapon the safety is automatically in the safe mode, which is something to consider because in a stressful situation it could be forgotten. Also you have to ingrain in the mind that just because there are two triggers doesn't mean you have two trigger fingers (my younger brother forgot this the first time he shot it and dumped both barrels pretty much simultaneously, which makes recoil worse.)

    With the lever action you get the benefits of common ammo, and it is also a rather pc weapon. I'd stick with the .357 as opposed to the .30-30. Nothing against the .30-30, it's great for hunting and whatnot. But with the .357 you will increase magazine capacity, and still have a powerful enough round to end the threat.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolivar View Post
    But no where did you mention anything about practice. Many would make the mistake and assume you might have meant something else.
    Yup, my mistake for not being more explicit. I have a bad habit of taking things for granted some times. Need to be more careful.

    Hoss
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    I honestly don't think that you could go wrong with any of the three choices. All three can be used to great effect as a HD weapon.

    The stoeger coachgun's are great weapons. They feel really nice in your hands, are and very maneuverable inside structures. The downsides to it are the capacity, and the recoil. The kick is pretty stout, although you could use reduced recoil rounds. Also after you load the weapon the safety is automatically in the safe mode, which is something to consider because in a stressful situation it could be forgotten. Also you have to ingrain in the mind that just because there are two triggers doesn't mean you have two trigger fingers (my younger brother forgot this the first time he shot it and dumped both barrels pretty much simultaneously, which makes recoil worse.)

    With the lever action you get the benefits of common ammo, and it is also a rather pc weapon. I'd stick with the .357 as opposed to the .30-30. Nothing against the .30-30, it's great for hunting and whatnot. But with the .357 you will increase magazine capacity, and still have a powerful enough round to end the threat.
    I have the Stoeger Nickle Coach Gun Supreme...
    After the purchase, I had it reworked...one item fixed was the auto safety, and now it's no longer an auto safety (manual safety only)...perfectly safe...lots of other things done, too! It's a sweet gun for around the home.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    I like having an AR for HD. I have a shotgun that is a backup as well. Here's why I like the AR though.

    30 round magazines.

    Devastating terminal ballistics. A lever action does not even come close to comparing. If you aren't getting rifle velocities, you just can't do what a rifle can do. A shotgun comes close only because of the amount of impacts per shot - it makes holes but does not destroy tissue like a rifle will.

    Less penetration through walls etc. than any lever gun would have. Lighter bullets means less penetration, goes through fewer walls. Shotguns are good in this respect as well.

    Almost no recoil. My wife can shoot this gun fast and it is very comfortable to shoot.

    Ease of use. It is ergonomically designed, and with a red dot sight it doesn't get much simpler to aim and fire - no pumping, levering - just squeeze the trigger as many times as you want to shoot. The safety is easier than most shotgun safeties as well.

    The Second Amendment - own a gun that would be used by a militia. A militia - whose purpose is fighting with guns - would not choose a lever action or a shotgun - they would choose a magazine fed rifle.

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  10. #25
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    For the price of an AR you can get both a shotgun and a lever action marlin.


    If I had to choose just one I would pick the shotgun. If I didn't have to choose I'd get both. In a pinch, however, the shotgun can fill both roles rather well.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    all good choices.

    AR is great but a lever action will be the easiest to handle compared to either of the other two and I guarauntee your wife will like that one best.

    The shotgun can be VERY versatile with different barrels and even low recoil loads.

    The AR is a good weapon period but, again, the lever action will be much more manuverable in my opinion due to the light weight.

    I have an AR and shotgun but I want the .357 lever action because I think it's one of the most versatile weapons around. With .357 it'll take deer at reasonable ranges, does good for SD and can be affordable for plinking and range work and the recoils is modest even with the heaviest .357 loads.

    I have my dealer trying to get one. He has one customer ahead of me. I know it could be 3 months or even a year but he'll get me one eventually. So I've put the money aside and will just forget about it because I trust he won't.

    There's no other way to buy these popular weapons unless you're willing to pay more than they're worth off the internet. I just did that to get an all stainles S&W J frame that's pre-lock. I purchased a model 60-12 and paid $69 too much plus the shipping and a transfer fee, however, you won't find one of those used around here in any kind of shape, period so it was pay too much or not get one and the question is, will it be cheaper in a year or two? I somehow doubt it.

    I just saw a .357 lever on gunsamerica or gun broker but they were asking 550 or so and the wood grain was quite plain.

    good luck

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
    .........I have my dealer trying to get one. He has one customer ahead of me. I know it could be 3 months or even a year but he'll get me one eventually..........
    You don't say what brand you're looking for but you may not have to wait that long. Try calling Buffalo Arms. They may have what you want and I've done business with them before and they are great guys.

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  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Thanks CVhoss, I'll check it out. Their prices are a good 30-40 higher but if you want something, I suppose it's worth more. I'll call and see if they have the 1894C in stock. I'm looking for the .357, 18.5" barrel, round...

    Thanks

  14. #29
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    While the AR seems to be the best, you gotta worry about penetration. If your using it for HD and you have kids you dont want a .223 blasting through the perp and going into your kids bedroom. I personally use a Mossberg 500 12 ga with an 18 1/2 in. barrel loaded with 00 Buck. My mother is a small little thing but she can handle it long enough to scare off someone.

  15. #30
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    I think I'm going to go with the shotgun because I can go shoot clay with my family with it. Now I need to figure out which one will fit both my wife and I the best. Probably a 20ga of some kind. I like the Stoegers but it might be too much recoil for my wife.

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