Stopping power of the AR platform - Page 2

Stopping power of the AR platform

This is a discussion on Stopping power of the AR platform within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Of course, shot placement is everything...having said that, here's my HD ammo for my AR15 ( 1:9 twist ) 55grain muzzle velocity 3,240fps energy 1,282ftlbs ...

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Thread: Stopping power of the AR platform

  1. #16
    Member Array SHOOTER13's Avatar
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    Thumbs up My 2 cents...

    Of course, shot placement is everything...having said that, here's my HD ammo for my AR15 ( 1:9 twist )




    55grain muzzle velocity 3,240fps energy 1,282ftlbs
    60grain muzzle velocity 3,115fps energy 1,293ftlbs

    Propellents are engineered to protect night vision by minimizing muzzle flash...( for when things go bump in da night )
    SHOOTER13
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    DoD: Peace thru Superior Firepower


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    GoAway, that's one lucky cat. Only 8 lives left.

    Good thing you didn't have a light attached to your SKS.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtD View Post
    GoAway, that's one lucky cat. Only 8 lives left.

    Good thing you didn't have a light attached to your SKS.
    Not the SKS I have....It wouldn't have hit the barn much less the cat.....
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  4. #19
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Why are you looking at the AR platform? Your first comment is that you are looking for a military style rifle to complete your small arms collection. Are you looking for something to round out your collection, or are you looking for a SD/SHTF rifle?

    If you are looking to just round out your collection then I do not understand your concerns. The AR is definitely the military style platform that represents the standard rifle used by the US Military over the last 40 years.

    If you are looking for a SD/SHTF type of rifle then you have different concerns. Is the .223/5.56 a reasonable round for this purpose? I think so. Would a larger round be better? Probably, but you would limit your ability to carry your ammunition supply. The .223/5.56 round is large enough to be able to be used for both SD as well as survival hunting. It is also a round that that is small enough that you can carry a lot of ammunition on your person without being over loaded down.

    In either case the AR is a reasonable platform. In the first case the .223/5.56 round is, in my opinion, the only choice. In the second case you have other options that you can look at while still using the AR platform, but I think the .223/5.56 would probably server you just as well as most of the others.

  5. #20
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davensquirt View Post
    Also I don't know if they have controlled a problem called Hydrostatic Shock, this at one point was an issue with the military were-as the bullet was traveling at such a high rate of speed (3255fps) and basically would vaporize upon striking even a leaf, however when it did hit a bone upon entering it would pulverize the entire bone to a consistancy of mashed potatoes.
    'Hydrostatic shock' is a myth, or at best an incomplete and unproven hypothesis. It describes the phenomena that occurs when a projectile dumps its energy into a viscous medium as one that also impacts the central nervous system due to the blast wave 'echoing' up the body and disrupting brain functions. There is a blast wave component to the way energy is dispersed into a person, but temporary wound cavities are called temporary for a reason; the wave-like description of energy dispersal in a medium is not the sole wounding agent.


    On the topic itself, the 5.56x45 is a very lethal round when properly made. The M193 worked well enough out of 20" barrels with 1:14" twists, but that's because they were barely stable coming out of the barrel and upset very easily into tissue (happy accident). Tightening the twist markedly reduced lethality with the 55 gr FMJ bullet. The SS109 bullet of the M855 was designed to be linked ammo fired from the M249 at lightly-armored targets from long distances; according to Dr. Fackler, Dr. Roberts, and others, it does this very well. It is not very accurate, and is a poorer performer the shorter the barrel length becomes. Neither the M193 or M855 should be considered exemplary of the lethality of the 5.56x45.

    Two excellent resources can be found here and here.


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  6. #21
    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
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    That was a great story. Glad to know your
    cat came out ok.

  7. #22
    Member Array Hamour's Avatar
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    Winchester 64gr Power Point, factory or reload will work well for you in the defensive rifle. Good weight and velocity combination for the .223.

  8. #23
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    The 5.56 /.223 is more then adequate sd round. Problem for SD is using FMJ. FMJ is meant not to necessarily kill but wound, becoming a force multiplier. You kill one BG that reduces their force by one. You wound one BG theory is takes 2-3 others to care for wounded BG. Good concept fighting an organized established army. Now if your fighting and insurgent force hell bent on dying and not "organized" like a standard army doesn't really accomplish that mission. FMJ also needed for penetrating light cover on the battle field. Then theirs The Hague Convention which kinda prohibits the military from using HP's.

    There are lots of good hunting bullets that penetrate and expand very well. Various brands of T.A.P. ammo that will work.

    You can look at it this way. How many folks carry/rely on a 9mm for SD. Alot, now would you use ball/FMJ in it for SD. No. It's not so much the caliber it the ammo you use more or less.

  9. #24
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    Great resources posted by BAC regarding the .223/5.56mm - here is another couple more from another site: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

    Ammo Forum Rules & FAQs

    Basically the best loads are heavy OTMs (75-77gr) which will fragment and penetrate deeply. The Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 64 grain load is a good choice for better penetration through barriers such as vehicles.

    Austin

  10. #25
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by sav10le308 View Post
    The 5.56 /.223 is more then adequate sd round. Problem for SD is using FMJ. FMJ is meant not to necessarily kill but wound, becoming a force multiplier.
    Wrong. No round ever employed by our military has ever been designed to wound and not kill. The bullets were/are full metal jacket because that was the standard since the Hague Convention (that we never signed) and because bullet technology had not progressed enough to produce the JAG-approved ammunition available to the military today.

    The best available rounds to use against people will be in the 69-77 gr range. Better bullets are known, but are not yet commercially available.


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  11. #26
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    Wow, the story with the cat made me shudder! I am so thankful he/she survived, (I have the heart the size of a medicine ball for pets)!!

    For years I always wondered why the military went to .223/5.56 and still do. Basically, if you don't trust the caliber for hunting deer, why use it for SD??
    You never see a motorcycle parked ouside a psychiatrist's office!

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastball View Post
    For years I always wondered why the military went to .223/5.56 and still do.

    Nut shell. Three round bursts three of those on a single target almost instantly little recoil. Another is weight. Carry more, put more on target accuratly.

    .308 great, but is heavy, big, and in rapid fire no so accurate do to recoil. 7.62 again recoil basicaly any .30 cal or above while very effective is heavy and has a substantial recoil.

    I would rather have smaller ammo that's light so I can carry much more, also that I can put several on target fast and in good grouping min. recoil.

    Also less fatigueing (weight, recoil) on the soldier in a lengthy fire fight.

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I do not own an AR. I am ex military 1.5 years ago. I served in the sandbox a few times more than I wanted. We do not use HP ammo. We are obligated to use only nato ball as regulated by the G. Convention.

    I can shoot something all day with a 22 and piss them off. After all 5.56 or .22 caliber rifle round is in the same respect as a .17hmr. A small caliber round with a ton of powder behind it. Really fast, bores a hole through a lot of stuff easily but doesn't do a lot of collateral damage.

  14. #29
    Member Array Fastball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogbones View Post
    Nut shell. Three round bursts three of those on a single target almost instantly little recoil. Another is weight. Carry more, put more on target accuratly.

    I would rather have smaller ammo that's light so I can carry much more, also that I can put several on target fast and in good grouping min. recoil.
    I understand that theory, but when it takes more rounds to do the same job as less, in another caliber........sorta like taking nickels instead of quarters to to get a one dollar soda out of a machine at work for lunch. You've been carrying 4 quarters to do the same job as 20 nickels for half the day.

    I'd rather carry quarters.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOOTER13 View Post
    Of course, shot placement is everything...having said that, here's my HD ammo for my AR15 ( 1:9 twist )




    55grain muzzle velocity 3,240fps energy 1,282ftlbs
    60grain muzzle velocity 3,115fps energy 1,293ftlbs

    Propellents are engineered to protect night vision by minimizing muzzle flash...( for when things go bump in da night )
    +1 on Hornady TAP. I have Five 20 round magazines filled with this for self defense.

    My 30 round mags are loaded with Lake City Steel Core FMJ (green tip).

    We were shooting some steel strapping which was either 3/8's or 1/2" IIRC with the steel core Lake City ammo. At 75 yards it was coming close to punching all the way through. Made a deep dime size dish on the front impact and started a small bump on the back side of the strapping. Would be no problem with the sheet metal on a vehicle. I got a good deal on 2,000 rounds of it at an estate auction a couple years back. I have around 1,500 rounds left on stripper clips in bandoleers and packed in ammo cans.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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