Check my Thinking about Shotguns and HD..
This is a discussion on Check my Thinking about Shotguns and HD.. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Need some help. I get goofed up in my thinking from time to time and need some help sorting out logic. My collection is solid ...
April 7th, 2009 04:26 PM
Check my Thinking about Shotguns and HD..
Need some help. I get goofed up in my thinking from time to time and need some help sorting out logic. My collection is solid and I'm only working on a few other wants/needs to call it good.
I've been considering a shotgun as the 3 I have are long barrelled hunting guns with the exception of 1 and it's a youth 20 ga for my boys. So I'm thinking I need a basic 12 ga 870 pump 7 round express. I even asked about it on this site months ago.
But the more I think about it, the more I begin to wonder why? I know the versatility of a good 12 ga but I'm a shorter, smaller guy so they're always a long reach to the forearm. So I'm already planning on putting a youth stock on the 870 to shorten LOP.
And then there's the recoil. I've shot some tactical shotguns and boy do they kick. I know low recoil rounds and the youth stock with Remington R3 recoil pad will help but it's still a lot.
then there's the length. Shotguns just seem lonnnnngggg to me. Compared to my AR the feel long and well, long. In my house the halls are narrow and it's pretty closed in so it seems a hand gun is a much better option. Seems the shotgun would be hard to bring to bear.
And if it's all outside then the AR really comes into it's own. Mine has an adjustable stock, 16" w/Eotech.
So it seems I don't really have a good fit for me and a 12 ga. It doesn't fit me well inside and I have better choices for outside.
Now if I could buy an 18" cylinder bore barrel for the 20ga youth then I'd probably call that good but I can't find one no matter how much I've looked.
I held a Berretta CX4 Storm and I LOVE how short it is. Seems like in the tight hallways of my house that would be an ideal weapon.
I know in an end of the world scenario I could use my Winchester 12 ga auto and just saw off the barrel to take advantage of any 12ga ammo but I'm not expecting that scenario.
So I'm thinking of just skipping the 870 all together and either saving up for the Berretta Storm in 9mm or possibly just getting a full size 1911 or the Kahr K9 for a good dedicated house gun. Righ now I just use one of my carry guns like a kahr P9, or a Colt New agent, or a .38 revolver.
I do have a Marlin 1894 C in .357 on order.
So what do you think? Does it seem logical just to skip the obligatory 12ga HD shotgun if it's just not an ideal fit?
Just wanted to test my logic and I respect the opinions I get here on the forum.
Anyway, thanks for the input!
April 7th, 2009 04:35 PM
If it doesn't work for you, and you feel more confident in another platform--then go with the other platform.
I think one would have to be certifiable to say that an AR is a sub-par HD weapon.
Then again, I'd have to say the same thing that anyone who said a 12guage is sub-par, as well...
Both AR's and SG's have their strengths and weaknesses in the intended use. Go with what works for you.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
April 7th, 2009 07:55 PM
Just my opinion but I would buy the 870 riot (have one myself) and slap a Knoxx adjustable, recoil suppression stock on it. Tames the recoil WAY down to less than a .410 gauge and can be adjusted for LOP by 4". Best close up weapon and stock ever invented IMO and with 00 buck the rounds won't penetrate a whole house endangering family and neighbors like an AR if you miss.
Here's the info on the stock. HIGHLY recommend it!!
Knoxx SpecOps Adjustable Stocks : Cabela's
As far as clearing your house I also suggest you don't do it. It's dangerous with training and experience and Really dangerous without it. Especially true if you are by yourself. Have a safe room and let the perps come to you. Have a action plan and practice it.
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April 7th, 2009 08:03 PM
I would also suggest the Knoxx SpecOps stock. I was not real sure if it was worth the money until I tried it. Now, IMHO, I think it is. Great stock and it does tame the 12 ga.
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April 7th, 2009 09:00 PM
Get the 12Ga and set it up like Ront's.
Then your good with 2 3/4 reduced recoil 00 and you will never feel the shot should you ever have to take it.
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April 7th, 2009 09:01 PM
With your present firearms, and Marlin on the way, I see no need for yet another shotgun. The HD shotgun need not have a short barrel, if it is used to stay in one spot, and wait for the bad guy. Going mobile, inside a home, while generally to be avoided if possible, is a role well-served by a carbine. Get some good training in the close-quarters use of that AR, and you will be fine.
April 7th, 2009 09:14 PM
I have to agree with everything stated here. A HD Shotgun is hard to beat . . . period. With the available stocks, adjustable and recoil reducing coupled with low recoil tactical #00 buckshot, there is no reason to skip over one for a defensive weapon.
However, your carbine is just as effective for HD and it has been proven that the projectile will usually always break apart on entry of a wallboard due to the light weight of the bullet and extreme velocity of a rifle round.
I personally like the shotgun as I think one hit with #00 buck may be more immediately effective than a single hit with the rifle round, particularly if the rifle hit isn't placed exactly right.
The shotty is definitely less expensive than another rifle and less than many handguns as well.
"Engage your brain before you engage your weapon" - James "Mad Dawg" Mattis
April 7th, 2009 09:35 PM
I know that the 12 gauge in 00 buck is the king of
HD..not going to nay say anything here. I believe
it's the best tool for this job.
I used to go to this for my own protection at home
but, I'm changing. I am starting to lean more towards
carbines. I just see myself being able to manuver around
the house better with them and you have less recoil as
April 7th, 2009 10:24 PM
I face some of the same challenges you described (size and felt recoil) and seemed to have overcome them with a Mossberg 500 and Knoxx recoil reducing pistol grip.
I also have a CX-4 Storm (45). With all of the stock pads removed it fits my 5'6" frame perfectly.
April 7th, 2009 10:27 PM
I love pistols, and I love rifles, but when things go bump in the night, I grab a shotgun.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
April 7th, 2009 10:28 PM
I wanted a HD shotgun, but I wanted to keep it simple, short, and intimidating...mine is in 12ga.
Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme in 12-Gauge and 20-Gauge with 3” Chamberx
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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April 7th, 2009 11:00 PM
I prefer a Pistol caliber carbine for HD, I use a M-1 Carbine myself
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April 7th, 2009 11:43 PM
A shotgun, IMO, should be considered a fixed-position 'safe room defender', a task it is well suited for. When going mobile indoors, which is really dangerous no matter what the weapon, a handgun is probably the best choice because of maneuverability. Clearing a building alone with a long gun seems to me a recipe for gun grab. In your case, I think the Marlin or the AR will probably fit the bill as a fixed-position gun, but the shotgun offers superior terminal ballistics.
April 8th, 2009 12:46 AM
Clearing a building alone is always a bad idea, two is the minimum unit it should be done with, but 4 is better. With proper retention techniques and training a gun grab isn't that big of a threat. I'd pretty much always take a long gun over pistol for urban action.
Originally Posted by United93
Shotguns are great for fixed positions, but if the M-4gery works better for ya, great. I'd take a look at the stoeger coachguns too, as they are awfully short and handy indoors. And the 1894c, I got one last weekend, they certainly are sweet.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
April 8th, 2009 12:46 AM
There is nothing wrong with a PCC for home defense. If you dont want the pump, consider an auto. The action of a semi auto soaks up a lot of recoil.
The main selling point with a shotgun for SHTF or HD is its versatility/utility. It can do anything. A carbine is a great tool, but its role is somewhat limited.
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