Remington 870 tactical (2)

[rcsnpr]

I didn't want to steal the other thread, so I started this one. I hope I made the right choice.

I have never owned a shotgun but am looking at the 870.
If it can be used for HD can it also be used for hunting? Remember Newbie here.
I would like to justify my purchase as a dual purpose weapon.
What kind of spread at 100 yards? you use slugs? 00 buck?
I saw on a TV show "The Best Defense" where they said to use Bird Shot for home defense. Devastating up close and hardly any wall penetration .
Can a 12 gauge use bird shot? Or is it only 410? Please refer to Newbie statement above.
I am sure some of you are LOL, but I gotta learn sometime. And I don't mind.
Thanks, And have you've seen this?
YouTube - Remington's Masterpiece 870 Shotgun

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Guido Capizi]

The 870 is a great choice for home defense; very reliable. Look for an improved cylinder barrel, perhaps 18+ inches on length. No. 3 buckshot is what my federal agency issued for use in the 870's, along with rifled slugs. 12 ga of course for caliber. I wouldn't use birdshot under any circumstances. The #3 buckshot is very effective, and over-penetration of a home's exerior walls
shouldn't be a problem (unless your using rifled slug ammo).

[Sig4life]

This may help


12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.

If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.

Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.

20 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition Recommendations

We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot. The largest shot size commercially available that we know of is number 2 buck.

From a strict wound ballistics standpoint, we feel the Federal Classic 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 2 buckshot cartridge is the best choice. It contains 18 pellets of number 2 buckshot in a plastic shotcup with granulated plastic shot buffer.

However, the Federal Classic load might produce too much recoil for some people. Given this consideration, Remington's Premier Buckshot 2 ¾-inch 20 gauge number 3 buckshot cartridge is the next best choice. This load contains 20 pieces of nickel-plated, hardened lead shot that is buffered to reduce pellet deformation from post ignition acceleration and terminal impact. The Remington buckshot load will probably produce the tightest shot patterns in 20 gauge shotguns.

Third place is Winchester's 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 3 buckshot cartridge, which contains 24 pieces of buffered, copper-plated, hardened lead shot.

[PointnClick]

I am not an expert on shotguns by any means, but I recommend looking at Mossberg before your lay down the cash... quality and reliability are the same, but with superior ergonomics and a smarter safety placement...

[bal_g23]

Heres most shotgun loadings performace in ballistics gel in picture form

[SIXTO]

quality and reliability are the same

I wouldnt say that... but make sure you are comparing apples to apples. An 870 express and a 500 is comparable. A 870 Wingmaster or P is not in the same league as a 500. The 590 might be comparable.

Pattern at 100yds? What pattern? Shotguns shooting shot are at least 40 yds out of range at 100 yds. Slugs... a different story.

[PointnClick]

I was thinking 500, but like I said, my experience is limited... I'll gladly defer to working LEO...

Would you agree that the safety placement is superior?

[usmc3169]

point n click, I would agree with the safety placement on a standard stock shotgun - my hunting shotgun is a mossberg. However on a HD/tactical shotgun (or a hunting gun if you so desire) with a pistol grip and stock I would say that the safety on a Remmington is more ergonomic.

Like SIXTO said - I dont engage people sized targets with buckshot generally over 25 yards, it depends on how your gun patterns with the type of ammo you are using. Over 25 yards I tend to transition to a slug.

[BikerRN]

I like slugs out to 100 Yards and 00 or #4's from 35 Yards on in.

I much prefer a shotgun out to 100 Yards over a rifle and will take a shotgun over a handgun any day of the week unless concealment is an issue.

Since concealment is usally an issue for most people, myself included, I always have a handgun or two, on my person but I want a shotgun if given a choice.

I actually prefer the placement of the Remington safety over the Mossberg. Some of that I'm sure is because I started with a Remington and it's what my agency issues. My new home defense shotgun is a Remington 870 with a pistol grip and buttstock. For that gun I had a left handed safety placed in it because it's not as ergonomic as the standard safety with the traditional stock.

For shooting at longer distances, while some may disagree, I like the Ghost Ring Rear Sight and a Front Post. For Home Defense a bead will work just fine, but my new gun has the Ghost Ring set-up because I can't afford two shotguns set up the same way except for the sights, and I do like to use the shotgun at longer distances.

Lean in to it and have fun.

Biker

[usmc3169]

Biker, I also like the post with ghost ring. I think my next hunting shotgun will be a Remington Marine Magnum with pistol grip/buttstock - 18" variety.

[SIXTO]

I was thinking 500, but like I said, my experience is limited... I'll gladly defer to working LEO...

Would you agree that the safety placement is superior?

No, not really. I never understood this argument, but will agree its mostly a matter of personal preference. Almost all conventional long guns have the cross bolt type safety. The placement of the Remington safety forces you to have proper finger indexing at the ready and easy engage/disengage the safety as you move your finger in or out of the trigger guard.
With Mossberg's design, you disengage the safety with you thumb... think about that for a minute. It could be a safety issue, especially under stress or in a crowded fast pace scenario.

[64zebra]

I was thinking 500, but like I said, my experience is limited... I'll gladly defer to working LEO...

Would you agree that the safety placement is superior?

To the original poster...I have a Mossy 500 and have about 1500 rounds through it with no problems
This IMO is the 'cheapest' shotty one should get for HD
yes you can use the shotty for HD and for hunting

that being said my dept only authorizes Remington 870 wingmaster or police models so I had to practice with the safety after shooting Mossy for years

the safety placement is purely user opinion, I made the switch and had to practice to get used to the 870...but it can be done

[Tom357]

This may help


12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Sadly, though still true, these recommendations are long out-of-date with the market.

...For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not...

Of these, Federal no longer offers #1 buck in 12ga. and hasn't for years. Remington and Winchester each offer one standard load in 2-3/4" #1 buck, if you can find anyone carrying it.

...Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot...

No longer offered. There is a 3" load with 24 pieces of #1 buck.

...We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot...

Still true. Federal offers two 20ga loadings in #2 buck (no Magnum loads), but only offers #1 in one 16ga load. Remington and Winchester each offer one 20ga load in #3 buck, and that's it.

I used to shoot the Federal Classic #1 load, and I loved the way it patterned. Now, all any of these offer in 12ga buckshot is #4 buck, 00 and 000. Same holds true for Remington and Winchester. There's nothing wrong with 00, but for the reasons outlined in this IWBA article, this is why I've decided to start handloading #1, now that I have replaced my old shotgun.

[old grunt]

Either a Mossberg 500(or 590.. a Mil-Spec 500 to keep it simple) or a Remington 870 will serve you well. Good Luck.