DPMS Panther A-15 5.56NATO Sportical
This is a discussion on DPMS Panther A-15 5.56NATO Sportical within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; OK, obviously my DPMS is that one in a million that just works (I guess I'm lucky that way with guns). It's accurate, never broken ...
May 27th, 2009 11:48 PM
OK, obviously my DPMS is that one in a million that just works (I guess I'm lucky that way with guns). It's accurate, never broken any parts and is dead bang reliable. And I am the poster child for not cleaning a gun until it is filthy or won't function anymore. I admit I've never shot at anyone with it, but I do take classes and compete. Like I said, one data point.
Speaking as a former reliability engineer, some of the things on that chart are not going to make a difference (like shot peening a bolt) some will (individual testing vs batch), some are a wash. You also have to ask yourself is the additional cost of the individual component testing worth it to you. Like I said though, don't drink the Kool-Aid of any manufacturer (or their fanboys) too deeply. Personally I'd rather see some other Non-Destructive Examinations done on critical parts.
Lastly, I never said that chrome lining made an AR inaccurate. It is just less likely to be as accurate as an unlined barrel. That is not to be taken to say that unlined barrels are accurate.
May 27th, 2009 11:48 PM
May 28th, 2009 01:44 PM
Well I did it, I walked in just to look............and walked out with a Rock River Arms Ar-15 in 5.56!!!! I like a lot! I care a lot about my weapons, and trust every one of them. The few hundred extra dollars spent on this good rifle puts my mind at ease. I took a look at the DPMS and a look at the RRA and there was no comparison. So now I just have to spend the $ to break it in. They had a 500rd box of 223 Wolf Military ammo for $200 that they guy said was dirty but will do the trick, what do you think? And with these guns can I put 500 rounds through it in one session?
I love it when I go in "just to look."
"Being armed gives you options"
Kimber Pro Carry II; S&W M&P; S&W M&P9c; Walther PPS: Ruger SP101 357: Kahr P380 w/ CT; NAA 22mag; Rock River AR-15; NEF Pardner Pump; Benelli Nova
May 28th, 2009 02:18 PM
I own a Sportical that I bought 3 weeks before the election and it runs just fine. I do take issue with some of the folks stating that DPMS is a low quality rifle that lacks basic functionality; When I shot 3 gun IPSC matches back in the 90s I shot a DPMS as did most of the IPSC crowd I knew.
I say if you want to see what a quality AR-style firearm is, go talk to the IPSC/USPSA bunch. Next to the military or a SWAT team, IPSC Grand Master and Master class shooters run their guns and equipment harder than anybody, period. My DPMS I had back in those days went through at least 30,000 rounds of ammo that I counted in its lifetime and never coughed. It had no forward assist, no "iron" and it never failed. It was similar to the Sportical I bought the only difference being that it had a 16" bull versus a skinny barrel. The lower was exactly the same one they still make today. I did have a jewel custom trigger on the rifle that was set at 3.5lbs, same as all my carry guns. I topped the gun with a C-More, and nothing on that rifle ever failed me during a match or practice, with factory or reloaded ammo.
Now, I will say here that any AR has to be cleaned and maintained to operate properly. The AR as Eugene Stoner designed it did not have a forward assist, that was only added at the behest of the military, and through some digging by Stoner it was found that weapons evaluators and soldiers were not following the maintenance guidelines for the weapon. They were also using remanufactured ball powder in those early guns, which was poorly stored ball powder from the US Navy for use in their large guns. They remanufactured the powder and used calcium carbonate as a means to hold the nitrocellulose together. This had the effect of caking up inside the gas tubes and chambers of the weapons, rendering them prone to jams and making them difficult to clean. The military switched to another ball powder that was cleaner, and later stick powders which is what the test ammo used for the M16 trials. The forward assist stayed, though to this day, but like the lowered and flared ejection port on the 1911 pistol, it is not needed.
As for my Sportical, I like it a lot. It handles well and I just put a basic Dot sight (TruGlo) on it, it runs everything I put through it and has not coughed once even during a couple of field courses I ran at a 3-gun match just after I got it. I paid just $625.00 for mine, because I saw what was coming into the White House.
So there are my 2c
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
June 2nd, 2009 09:58 AM
Pros use DPMS?
There is an add in my Guns & Ammo mag for DPMS that says, "Professional Shooters Trust DPMS." Then there are some names:
Jim Clark Jr.
Now I have no idea who these people are but if they are professional shooters and they choose DPMS how could the guns suck???? I want to like these guns cause they are made close to me and I think it would be cool to buy local and they are actually in stock at my local store. But it seems there is so much on the internet saying how these guns are crap...
HK P2000 SK .40
Crossbreed Supertuck & Beltman
June 5th, 2009 10:04 AM
Todd I don't even know where to begin with where your whole premise is wrong...
First of all, you have no first hand experience that any of these guys actually use these products. Second of all... you're assuming that these professional shooters (you don't know) actually use DPMS products beyond the patch they wear on their hat/shirt/whatever and that they're not just trying to make some more money by getting a sponsor on their team... When aside from shooting, that's pretty much all professional shooters do. Third, I doubt there's a professional shooter on the planet that uses a bone-stock rifle. Even if they were to start with a Sportical it would be so worked over by the time it was done the only thing left would likely be the two receivers and the barrel...
Edr9 - I'm glad your statistical sampling of 2 is working out. The problem with DPMS (which is a direct result of cutting as many corners as possible including not properly testing their products, using sub par materials and apparently paying monkeys to assemble them) is inconsistency. If you look at a large enough sampling you will see (and again, people who actually run their rifles hard and see enough of them to speak into this will confirm) that the rifles that sh*t the bed the most are DPMS and Oly. This isn't new or hidden information, it's fairly well known... Again, I'm glad your 2 have worked out...
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost
June 7th, 2009 04:40 PM
Congratulations on your purchase. Personally I own a DPMS (not the sportical model though) And I love it. It is truly a great gun. I also own a RRA and it is also truly an incredible gun. You will be very very happy with your purchase. You will be able to go through 500 rnds with no problem. But remember there is a break in period. (most people say between 1k~3k rounds). Now get some good optics and have fun.
I hope it is not considered against the rules to discuss other forums. But if you have any questions you should check out AR15.Com. You will learn more about that gun than you thought possible. Congrats again.
June 15th, 2009 10:36 PM
I have a Sportical and it will shoot anything but Wolf. I only have about 400 rds thru it so I will try Wolf again at about 1K rds to see if break in makes a difference.
June 25th, 2009 02:18 AM
Nice comment on the description of fwd assist. My addition to that is it's intended function was to enable a soldier/sailor/marine to be able to force that round in a high speed combat situation so that a unfortunate failure to feed wouldn't cost his life. I had to actually use it once in training but never in a real situation.
Originally Posted by adaman04
In a civilian rifle the design of this is not really a truly justifiable purchase consideration unless you simply want that functionality. Im saving for a Colt with all the bells and whistles unless people here talk me out of it in my other thread in this forum.
If we were to ever get invaded by non obama hostile forces (Dont think it cant happen) I want to rely on the best functions that would otherwise be overlooked in a normal civilian purchase to fall on to save my life and fellow countryman.
Tangent: I was in the military and carried a real M16 and 4 and never once did I use fully auto. ARs are so much better performing and accurate in single shot anyways.
"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
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