5.56x45mm vs .223 Remington

This is a discussion on 5.56x45mm vs .223 Remington within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It's like saying should I buy a .357 or a .38, you can shoot .38 spls out of a .357. Shooting .38's out of a ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: 5.56x45mm vs .223 Remington

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,624
    It's like saying should I buy a .357 or a .38, you can shoot .38 spls out of a .357. Shooting .38's out of a .357 is no more or less accurate... then shooting them out of a .38 gun. Same goes for .223 and 5.56.

    The 5.56, as with the .357, has more "pressure" when shot ... so takes a barrel made to handle it. That's all.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    2,347
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    It's like saying should I buy a .357 or a .38, you can shoot .38 spls out of a .357. Shooting .38's out of a .357 is no more or less accurate... then shooting them out of a .38 gun. Same goes for .223 and 5.56.

    The 5.56, as with the .357, has more "pressure" when shot ... so takes a barrel made to handle it. That's all.
    Ya, but there is an added (obvious) problem with the comparison as you could chamber a 5.56 in a .223...while you can't chamber a .357 Mag in a .38 Spl.

    I keep going back and forth, if I'll evey buy an AR-15.

    If I do, knowing what I do now, it would be a 5.56.
    NRA Member
    S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
    Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger

  4. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    It's like saying should I buy a .357 or a .38, you can shoot .38 spls out of a .357. Shooting .38's out of a .357 is no more or less accurate... then shooting them out of a .38 gun. Same goes for .223 and 5.56.

    The 5.56, as with the .357, has more "pressure" when shot ... so takes a barrel made to handle it. That's all.
    No, it isn't. There are critical dimensional differences between the 5.56 and .223 chambers.

    Bottom line - firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber means you are firing the wrong ammo. You might get away with it, or you might seriously damage your rife (and / or yourself).

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southwestern OK
    Posts
    2,017
    Bottom line - firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber means you are firing the wrong ammo. You might get away with it, or you might seriously damage your rife (and / or yourself).
    In 1968 I acquired a huge quantity of 5.56mm ammo. Had my Sako re-chambered to .223 at that time. That gun and several others that I own have digested thousands of rounds of 5.56mm ammo without a bauble.

    SAAMI represents US commercial ammunition manufacturers. They waited 20 years until 5.56mm military ammo had flooded the market to spring this revelation on us. This is the same SAAMI that asked the BATF for a revision of ammo manufacturing and storage rules and then whined to high heaven when trhe BATF did just that.

  6. #20
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    It's still using ammo in a firearm marked for a different ammo.

    If one wants to take that risk personally, fine. Advising others to do so, IMHO, is a bit reckless.

    Clint McKee of Fulton Armory (fairly well known as a knowledgeable guy in the firearms field) describes using shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber as "Very Dangerous". It's not just pressure levels, it's the depth of the lede.

    SAAMI to this very day lists shooting mil-spec 5.56 in a .223 marked firearm as an "unsafe arms and ammunition combination": SAAMI | Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #21
    BAC
    BAC is offline
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Matt, methinks your sig line is oddly appropriate here.


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


    Defensive Carry Search Tips


    Step 1 - Choose a subforum on right side under "Search in Forum(s)"
    Step 2 - Type general topic of interest in "Search by Keyword" textbox.
    Step 3 - Read results and refine/repeat as necessary.

  8. #22
    BAC
    BAC is offline
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    There are several myths concerning military 5.56mm ammo. It is a myth that US made 5.56mm cases are thicker than commercial cases. For over 40 years I have weighed my cases when real good accuracy is desired. See the link below for case weights.

    It is also a myth that 5.56mm military ammo is loaded to much higher pressure than commercial .223 ammo. US military 5.56mm ammo is loaded to 52,000 Psi + 3 standard deviations; not to exceed 58,000 psi. SAAMI specs are 55,000 psi.

    SAAMI pressures


    BTW: There are at least a dozen different .223 chambers. Unless your rifle is an H@R Handi rifle or it has a tight .223 match chamber there are no problems with firing 5.56mm military ammo in that gun. H@R re-ground their reamers and their chambers are all over the place from huge to very tight.

    A gunsmith friend says that he knows of no US firearm maker who currently uses a SAAMI chamber for the .223.

    This is a good link to peruse:

    AR15BARRELS.COM - Technical Documents
    That's interesting. The two relevant PDFs on that website both indicate a noteworthy variance between .223 Rem and 5.56x45, and even more curiously the second PDF describes a lack of consistency in .223 Rem chamberings compared to in 5.56x45 chamberings. NATO EPVAT testing indicates that 5.56 NATO chambers must be proofed to 62,000 psi. Max pressures for a rifle/ammo combo are to add 25% to the stated pressure, totaling almost 80,000 psi (yes, that's significantly higher than the lower SAAMI pressures).

    I'll give you that some military ammo is loaded on the higher end of the allowed SAAMI specs, but there's a lot more room for pressure spikes (military concern given the sheer volume of ammo they receive) and reloading errors in NATO chambers than in SAAMI chambers. I'd sooner take the low end of the NATO chamber than the high end of the SAAMI chamber.


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


    Defensive Carry Search Tips


    Step 1 - Choose a subforum on right side under "Search in Forum(s)"
    Step 2 - Type general topic of interest in "Search by Keyword" textbox.
    Step 3 - Read results and refine/repeat as necessary.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Making ammo.
    Posts
    3,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    There are several myths concerning military 5.56mm ammo. It is a myth that US made 5.56mm cases are thicker than commercial cases. For over 40 years I have weighed my cases when real good accuracy is desired. See the link below for case weights.
    Then explain to me why military brass has less case capacity and is heavier.

    A gunsmith friend says that he knows of no US firearm maker who currently uses a SAAMI chamber for the .223.
    Gee, probably all the SAAMI members who must abide by the SAAMI specs for every firearm chamber they cut.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southwestern OK
    Posts
    2,017
    Then explain to me why military brass has less case capacity and is heavier.
    US military 5.56mm brass does not have less capacity and it is not heavier. I have weighed .223 and 5.56mm cases for years. The heaviest cases made are Lapua match. Some Brit 5.56mm cases are very heavy.

    Go to the link: Click on Tech and then click on brass weights.

    AR15BARRELS.COM - Technical Documents


    Gee, probably all the SAAMI members who must abide by the SAAMI specs for every firearm chamber they cut.
    Not so. For about 25 years Ruger has said that their rifles rifles will accept either 5.56mm or .223 ammo.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southwestern OK
    Posts
    2,017
    NATO EPVAT testing indicates that 5.56 NATO chambers must be proofed to 62,000 psi.

    How does the proofing of a barrel translate into cartridge working pressure?

  12. #26
    BAC
    BAC is offline
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Did you read the last part of my statement?


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


    Defensive Carry Search Tips


    Step 1 - Choose a subforum on right side under "Search in Forum(s)"
    Step 2 - Type general topic of interest in "Search by Keyword" textbox.
    Step 3 - Read results and refine/repeat as necessary.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southwestern OK
    Posts
    2,017
    I am not advocating that anyone fire any 5.56mm ammo in a .223 SAAMI chamber.

    I am saying that annually for the past 41 years I have fired somewhere between 10,000-30,000 rounds of 5.56mm military ammo in .223 and 5.56mm chambers with no ill effect.

    Yes, I do own pressure testing equipment and one of my .223 guns is set up with it as we speak.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Making ammo.
    Posts
    3,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    US military 5.56mm brass does not have less capacity and it is not heavier. I have weighed .223 and 5.56mm cases for years. The heaviest cases made are Lapua match. Some Brit 5.56mm cases are very heavy.

    Go to the link: Click on Tech and then click on brass weights.

    AR15BARRELS.COM - Technical Documents
    Right, and Randall only weighed a few cases and came up with a theory. We load about 30,000 rounds a week of .223 using fired military brass and commercial brass. The commercial brass is lighter and holds more than the military brass. This is consistent across the little over 3 million rounds of .223 my company has loaded over the last two years.

    Not so. For about 25 years Ruger has said that their rifles rifles will accept either 5.56mm or .223 ammo.
    Newsflash: you can chamber a 5.56 NATO round in a .223 SAAMI chamber. That's nothing new and proves nothing.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    669
    Good info for me in the future. I plan on getting some sort of rifle and I suppose I'll look at the 5.56 chambered weapons, due to the versatility it provides.

    I think this a long time out for me though :(
    Smith & Wesson M&P9cCrossbreed Supertuck
    Ruger LCP
    Nitecore EX10 R2
    SOG Access Card 2.0

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,624
    Geeez... I was just trying to keep it simple... not give a whole detailed thesis on the differences......

    the real point is simple.... if it's a 5.56 / .223 barrel you can shot both ammos in it, if it's purely .223 you can only shoot .223 in it (gee ... just like a .357 & .38 ..they aren't dimensionally the same either).

    So, buy the one that shoots both and quit worrying about it.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Difference Between Remington & Remington UMC Ammo?
    By hogdaddy in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 10th, 2013, 02:40 PM
  2. .223 to be used in 5.56x45mm AR-15
    By RKM in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: June 18th, 2010, 01:22 PM
  3. 223 remington defense load for remington 716 police
    By pete00 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2009, 11:05 AM
  4. Artificial appreciation? The AR-15 / .223 Rem (5.56x45mm NATO)
    By Thanis in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 30th, 2009, 01:39 AM
  5. Home SD: 33 rd 9mm vs. 30 rd .223 (5.56x45mm)
    By Thanis in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: June 29th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Search tags for this page

.223 remington vs 5.56x45mm

,
.223 vs 5.56 ballistics
,
5.56 vs .223 ballistics
,

5.56 x45mm vs 223

,
5.56x45mm nato vs .223
,
5.56x45mm same as .223
,
5.56x45mm vs
,
5.56x45mm vs .22 rounds
,

5.56x45mm vs .223

,

5.56x45mm vs 223

,
is 5.56x45mm the same as .223
,
stag arms model 2 5.56x45mm (.223)
Click on a term to search for related topics.