BAC,
Agreed regarding frangible.
I personally would not use as much.
I'd use Hornady TAP or Corbon DPX...under specific conditions.
But (!) I did not bring that into the discussion...Blackeagle did so talk to him about frangible as used for HD.
Yes I mistook you for him in my reply as clearly I'd meant him as in relation to my reply to this;
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/1212882-post9.html
But it was after 2A EST and I was responding to both of you dually in two different posts to which both your handles begin with 'B'.
It's not hard to see what happened there.
As to references I added that item only once and it was a quote as in direct correlation to the OPs post about firing a round through wood and the result he experienced.
I don't have to reference anything further on that, I was not to start arguing for as much never mind detail projectile design in detail for a round I'm not in support of anyway.
As to PD use, what does that matter?
PD's are not civilians and civilians are not POLICE.
Police have significant differences in all manner of tactics. Civilian HD tactics and methods are not 1:1 same. Further police have different liability protections as related to their actions than do civilians. These two alone have significant affect on police tactics and armament choices, amongst others.
If you know of police then you know this too, or should, but for some odd reason are ignoring as much wholly as I've already stated a multiple of times here so as to support your own view of using .223/5.56 for _civilian_ HD.
Now if you yourself do not actually know that shotgun loads provide equal effectiveness with lower danger of overpenetration compared to common personal defense .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO loads, then well that is shocking and surprising. To know as much as you imply about .223/5.56 but to not understand real world results of those rounds upon flesh and meat is odd. It's not my job nor motivation to educate you on that further. If you have not done so by now and yet can speak to what you have thus far then I find that odd and well it is what it is. Same goes for shotgun loads. Shotguns and their loads have been in play for far longer than .223/5.56 as used toward medium and large game, as applicable to the shells I'd related toward HD use, and their stopping power in a functional way is well known there and same is well known and studied as used against humans.
Again it's not my job to educate you to that end either if for some odd reason you have not choosen to do so for yourself.
And with regard to "overpenetration" once again the core of my comments were related not to hitting a target, but to MISSING.
I'd stated as much to start as per the OPs subject of MISSING and striking not soft objects such as a stud.
You can argue all you want with yourself about over penetration as related to HITTING and what rounds at what weights and whatever other factor you would like to involve as related to 'over penetration'.
I'm not interested nor was I speaking to that.
I have been all along from the start focuses specifically on what happens to projectiles as fired/shot upon a MISS as in relation to background structure of the residence.
I will though leave you with these as you desire something to read.
The answers to many of your questions as studied in relation to shotguns can be found here, as also supportive to my assertions and "theory":
* The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth
The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 2
*
John Lott's Website: "Army Lawyer on use of shotguns in combat"
Note: The source link as noted in the Lott article is no longer functional.
The file as pointed too though can be found directly at; http://web.archive.org/web/20061206134853/http://jagcnet.army.mil/JAGCNETINTERNET/HOMEPAGES/AC/ARMYLAWYER.NSF/c82df279f9445da185256e5b005244ee/6ae1de28fab6310685256e5b0054ec6b/$FILE/Article+2.pdf
* Some Thoughts on the Combat Shotgun
Shotgun
Additionally an item that does support .223 use although specifically with extra-light projectiles so as to work well at HD ranges while also being more apt to lose energy or self destruct upon harder object impact as opposed to penetrate as the OPs projectile did.
* Long guns still popular home-defense option - Massad Ayoob
Long guns still popular home-defense option - Lethal Force | Shooting Industry | Find Articles at BNET
As well from the same author a reflection on use of a shotgun for HD to which interestingly he comes to the same conclusion and suggestion as I do in relation to #4 albeit from the opposite side of the coin as in relation to actual hit rather than miss.
Legends And Myths Of The Home Defense Shotgun - Massad Ayoob
Legends And Myths Of The Home Defense Shotgun - Brief Article | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET
Note: Ayoob goes on to mention 20GA as another appropriate choice which I also feel is a good choice albeit even more a heretical position than being against use of .223/5.56 for HD (!).
BTW I had not seen or read any of the above before today with exception of the TBOT story.
Additionally as in video the following is a demonstration of penetration as related to a MISS that was recently featured on 'The Best Defense'.
* Wall Penetration
THE BEST DEFENSE - on the Outdoor Channel
Note: At the end the test both 00 and birdshot (!). I am not and have not suggested birdshot but again note the results. The difference as shown is due to basic physics in relation to mass of the projectile as toward penetration upon a MISS.
I've got work to do that pays money so this will be my last post for now/today on the subject.
This reply alone has sucked up an inordinate amount of my time far more than my normal time to draft and hit submit.
If you don't or can't agree then well that's fine and your right. Nobody is forcing you to change nor requiring it.
For those who happen to do agree then well hey that's fine too.
No skin off my nose either way.
I'm only asking to consider that there is a world in 360 degrees beyond that of the target as within your residence in a HD scenario that has just as much right to be at peace and live as you do in regard to an attempted defense of self.
What I am though happy about is that you are not my neighbor.
The last thing I would want to occur is to have a .223/5.56 round come zipping into my home as fired from within your own as result of a MISS, rather than hit. Even as my neighbors are away from me at the measure of yards.
An oddly reassuring and positive thought as into relation to being surrounded by antis and otherwise gun fearful folk.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
- Janq