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What can't the AR-15 do?

8K views 41 replies 28 participants last post by  packinnova 
#1 ·
It seems that it is great for defense, survival (small-medium game), breakdown of society, revolution, and the range. Why would someone need more than a CC handgun and an AR?

I'm also interested in a .357 lever rifle because that's the revolver caliber I have. Aside from capacity limits, what couldn't a cowboy rifle do?
 
#7 ·
Well, as I see it not much. I have 2 ARs, with an extra 6.8spc top end that can fit on either gun.

So now in 10 minutes, I can swap top ends and have a rifle with a 26-round capacity that has the ballistic equivalency of a .270.

With that, I can hunt just about anything in this country I want, including men....
 
#8 ·
I disagree with the "too light for deer" thing. Pick up a road kill (fresh will help you take your time on the forensics) and put a .223 through the lungs. Then try the shoulder. Unless you're a really bad shot nothing south of that should be considered. Open the animal up and look at what you've done. I have a Bushmaster Varmint Special that will make vapor out of a deer brain or a rabbit lung at one hundred yards. I use the ballistic tip for this kind of thing. If you want to use a cheap bullet to spray and pray and a ballistic tip for precision work just note what setting on your optics you have to use for each. My preference is to use the ballistic tip for both. You are, after all, betting your life on the performance of that rifle in self defence and hunting modes.
 
#9 ·
Agreed as well llongshot as in regard to deer and .223.

That is no longer the case and has been demonstrated as such using modern projectiles such as the Barnes 'Triple Shock' amongst a few others including even Hornady 'TAP' and Nosler too. Hunters are reporting successful and ethical hunts of deer using these ammunition as in .223 and as in the case of the Barnes bullet in specific many reports of DRT results upon impact...if the shooter does his part as you indicated.


Logan Dominguez took this deer with his .223 Remington and a 53-grain TSX.
Source - Photo Gallery | Barnes Bullets

Never mind that the AR can be reconfigured to run the .30AR which is a new cartridge developed by Remington that runs thirty caliber weight and punch through a slightly modified AR upper with specific barrel and bolt using a normal AR lower along with a single stack design STANAG/AR style magazine.
For more info on the .30 AR cartridge go to; .30 Remington AR

Amazingly there is even an AR style/based shotgun available now too running .410 shells (!).
If there is one thing the AR has a claim to fame as it is for being quite flexible in applicability.

- Janq
 
#11 ·
If you live in town you have an unlimited supply of birds, squirrels, racoons, possums, and possibly rats. If you use a .223 to kill a deer that you probably can't refrigerate or eat before it goes bad and make enough noise to alert everything human/animal/mineral within a mile you are asking to become prey. Get yourself a good QUIET bb gun and/or a single shot .22 and some good QUIET subsonics and live off the birds and squirrels coming to your feeders. Back up inside your home and shoot from a rest through a window or door to muffle the noise. Keep the cooking deep inside your home in an iron receptacle using sticks/twigs from the yard. If it's really long term most of the macho will have dealt with most of the sheeple by the time anyone figures out what you're doing. Remember that when you start your generator and turn on all your lights and heat/air and tv your advertising to anyone within earshot that you have something they might want.
 
#12 ·
It can't not shoot through the walls of your house......and your neighbor's too.

Not a great platform for many, maybe even most, home defense scenarios as a result.
 
#13 ·
It can't seem to worm its way into my affections. I've owned one for 20+ years now and think the cartridge is a bit weenie and can't warm up to the rifle's design.
 
#20 ·
"from what you hear" :rolleyes:

Have you been to combat with an M4/M16 series rifle ?? If not then I would suspend the dispensing of advice until at which time you have taken one into battle and seen it's reliabilty or unreliabilty first hand.

Don't believe everything your read.

I've had an M4 run 3,000 + rounds without the need for cleaning or lubrication. At which point I detailed stripped the weapon and cleaned and lubricated it once again. I carried spare bolts, extractors, extractor springs, firing pins etc and only once had to replace a part within the bolt carrier group to keep on throwng lead down range.
 
#22 ·
The M-16/AR series of rifles is extremely versatile, and can be designed to do darn near anything. They can run rather dirty, maybe not to the extent of an AK, but can take a fair number of rounds in bad enviroments (mud, dust, ect...) without issues. Everything from CQB to precision shooting, although you probably will need to modify the weapon to fill the different roles.

I do enjoy my lever action rifles, especially my Henry .22 and Marlin .357, both of them just seem to handle and shoot naturally for me, and I honestly would feel comfortable with the .357 as my hd weapon instead of my AR (that being said, I have more experience operating an AR style weapon under stress, so that is my go to). But if you can find a .357 lever action at a decent price, you won't be dissappointed by it.
 
#23 ·
Taking a broader view...almost by definition, a self defense situation is very likely to be at short range. The longer the range, the more difficult it is to legally justify a shooting. Even in a temporary breakdown of law and order, there will eventually be legal fallout from any shot taken in self defense. Can you demonstrate that someone 200 yards away had the Means (long range weapon?), Intent (unless really obvious how do you know what they intend?), and Ability (decreases with distance) to kill/seriously harm you?

As such, I consider the shotgun to be the preferable self defense long gun. More firepower at short range, and can also be used for hunting small game (birdshot) or larger game (buckshot) or at extended distance (slugs). For those of smaller stature that might be recoil sensitive, I would try a 20g shotgun before going to the carbine or rifle.

The AR platform is very versatile to be sure, but I'm not convinced that any rifle or carbine is preferable to a good shotgun for defensive purposes. I have one (a Mini 14) "just in case" but I really cannot foresee a realistic scenario where I would use it instead of my shotgun.

JMHO.
 
#29 ·
You make an excellent point, my shotgun would be the first thing I grab, however, if I had a .357 levergun, it might be a close second, as I feel it is as quick handling and easily top off like a shotgun. I've practiced this with my .30-.30 some.
 
#24 ·
edr - the 6.8, except for diameter, is a lot closer to a .243 than .270 when comparing ballistics (energy and velocity) - but still damn good for anything up to deer or defense.

OT:
If you have a telescoping stock, it's good to teach young kids about shooting w/o having to get a youth stock they'll outgrow in a few years.
 
#25 ·
I would try a 20g shotgun before going to the carbine or rifle.
I also have a 20ga. The one thing that does play a large role is that I want anyone in the family to be able to shoot every gun in the house. I guess my experience with an AR makes it easy to operate, maintain, etc. for me but not everyone else. Granted training is extremely important but who's to say that my wife, children, wouldn't brain dump everything in a stressful scenario. Maybe the lever K.I.S.S. theory is one of the best defense starategies.
 
#32 ·
Cowboy rifles are an excellent choice for people living in CA or anywhere else where a "tactical rifle" is banned, or almost impossible to get.

Their only real downsides are slow reloading times, and a debatably more fragile magazine system.

Saw a quick loader for lever action rifles not too long ago. Will try to find it again. (homemade system)
 
#36 ·
Opps! Your link for quickloaders didn't work!

Hi Shadowsbane,
I have a Winchester model 94 in 38/357 caliber, and my desire for a quickloader led me to your post. I was so exited when I saw your link- I clicked it- and I got some crazy message from the forum like "thread not found", or something. Could you repost some information, so I could find and buy such a speedloader?:king:
 
#37 ·
I have Colt AR in .223.

I think the perfect companion would be an AR in 308 for more terminal ballistics at longer ranges on larger game!
 
#39 ·
My reason for the XM15 "Varmint Special" is the ability to take anything from squirrel to coyote to deer with the same round. If I'm grabbing in SHTF scenarios or a break in I'm going for a horse of a whole 'nother color. If I have to hunt for food and possibly defend myself in the process the AR concept is a very viable option. The XM is getting ready to go to 300 Below to be stress relieved from barrel crown to trigger group. The only thing not making the trip is the stock.
 
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