This is a discussion on Shotgun for Girlfriend? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Before you decide which type of buckshot to use... reduced recoil or full power, or 12 gauge vs. 20 gauge, you should consider first if ...
Before you decide which type of buckshot to use... reduced recoil or full power, or 12 gauge vs. 20 gauge, you should consider first if they can effectively wield the shotgun in close quarters against multiple opponents.
My wife, 5'2" can shoot a 12 ga. Mossberg 590 pump with 20 inch barrel accurately and quickly. No problem with recoil! No bruises or getting knocked on her butt and no getting the pump action in a bind from short stroking the action. She knows an aggressive forward leaning stance to shoot from.
However, in the close confines of the home, and in a "gun grab" situation, she just doesn't "wield" it confidently. In other words, it would be rather easy to disarm her. And that is a very legitimate concern everyone should have.
The good thing is that she realizes this and even though I have worked with her on long arm retention drills, she still does not feel confident with it as a primary home defense weapon.
Fortunately, we have some other options. She much prefers her pistol or the AR-15 collapsible stock carbine as a primary weapon and is much more secure with those in a potential "gun grab" situation. In my opinion that AR-15 carbine is a natural for women. It certainly is for my wife.
However, she has no problem using the 12 gauge shotgun as Ayoob suggests. Which is being used as an "artillery" piece from inside the ensconced/barricaded position inside the bedroom, and using it from behind cover of the bed.
When she's at home alone, she has at least 2 pistols within arms reach in the living room and usually has the AR-15 handy at the end of the sofa.
For self defense rounds, we use the Hornady Personal Defense .223 rounds in the AR-15.
While the Shotgun is an awesome defensive tool, you need to ensure that the person using it is confident and competent with it in all situations including CQB where a potential gun grab can occur. Especially if there are multiple intruders who could rush her at any time.
Just make sure it is an appropriate tool for your loved one to use before turning them loose with it. It does no good to be able to effectively neutralize one attacker only to be killed by his other two accomplices because your loved one couldn't effectively control it during a disarming attempt.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
I think you are on the right track with this. Don't be afraid to throw some weight in the stock to further reduce recoil.
As others have said, it may very well be a mistake to buy a sub gauge shotgun for recoil concerns. Most of the time, the guns are built on lighter receivers making a nice light handling gun, but the recoil is as much or more than the 12.
Also, I view it as a kick in the teeth to outfit a smaller person or woman with a smaller gun than you would carry. Why would you do that? Think about it. Are their attackers going to be smaller than yours? Are they less likely to be victims of violent crime?
Buy a proper tool, and more importantly, invest in training so she learns how to mount and swing that gun. Take the time to fit the gun. If you do so, she can shoot a 10 gauge with out an issue. Unless there is some underlying health problem, those that are recoil sensitive with shotguns simply don't know how to properly use the tool the have purchased.
With all that said, there is nothing wrong with a 20 or even a 410. Both will do the trick. Just don't make your selections for thhe wrong reasons.
One of the big reasons I'm leaning towards the 12 ga rather than a 20 ga is there is a bigger selection of defensive rounds available for it. The 20 ga option limits me to only a couple of good SD rounds, and should they ever go out of production or othewise be hard to find I'll be shopping for a new shotgun.
Training should be no problem. She's not afraid of guns and wants to be able to protect herself (or help me defend the both of us if I'm home). I also have several handguns available, but unfortunately they don't fit her hands well, so I'll probably also buy a small frame
9mm for her as a backup weapon.
Before you decide which type of buckshot to use... reduced recoil or full power, or 12 gauge vs. 20 gauge, you should consider first if they can effectively wield the shotgun in close quarters against multiple opponents.
My wife, 5'2" can shoot a 12 ga. Mossberg 590 pump with 20 inch barrel accurately and quickly. No problem with recoil! No bruises or getting knocked on her butt and no getting the pump action in a bind from short stroking the action. She knows an aggressive forward leaning stance to shoot from.
However, in the close confines of the home, and in a "gun grab" situation, she just doesn't "wield" it confidently. In other words, it would be rather easy to disarm her. And that is a very legitimate concern everyone should have.
The good thing is that she realizes this and even though I have worked with her on long arm retention drills, she still does not feel confident with it as a primary home defense weapon.
Fortunately, we have some other options. She much prefers her pistol or the AR-15 collapsible stock carbine as a primary weapon and is much more secure with those in a potential "gun grab" situation. In my opinion that AR-15 carbine is a natural for women. It certainly is for my wife.
However, she has no problem using the 12 gauge shotgun as Ayoob suggests. Which is being used as an "artillery" piece from inside the ensconced/barricaded position inside the bedroom, and using it from behind cover of the bed.
When she's at home alone, she has at least 2 pistols within arms reach in the living room and usually has the AR-15 handy at the end of the sofa.
For self defense rounds, we use the Hornady Personal Defense .223 rounds in the AR-15.
While the Shotgun is an awesome defensive tool, you need to ensure that the person using it is confident and competent with it in all situations including CQB where a potential gun grab can occur. Especially if there are multiple intruders who could rush her at any time.
Just make sure it is an appropriate tool for your loved one to use before turning them loose with it. It does no good to be able to effectively neutralize one attacker only to be killed by his other two accomplices because your loved one couldn't effectively control it during a disarming attempt.
YMMV.
Multiple intruders is one of my concerns. In fact it seems that more and more home invasions consist or two or more thugs. An AR-15 is an option, and being retired Army I'm very familiar with the AR15/M16/M4 series of weapons. It also has the advantage of a higher rate of fire and greater magazine capacity.
But I'm thinking it might be easier to teach her to use a shotgun effectively than an AR plus a shotgun would probably be safer with us living in an apartment.
Question for all: Right now I'm looking at a Remington 870, but only because I'm familar with Remingtons and have never owned a Mossberg. How do they stack up to each other?
Question for all: Right now I'm looking at a Remington 870, but only because I'm familar with Remingtons and have never owned a Mossberg. How do they stack up to each other?
Personal preference... They are both fighting shotguns with decent reputations as far as I'm concerned. USMC uses Moss 590's.
My Mossberg 590 has an 8 round tube magazine with the 20 inch barrel. I have a 6 round Side Saddle mounted to the receiver and a 6 round Eagle Industries pouch mounted on the shoulder stock. That's 20 rounds of mixed 00 buck and slugs mounted to the gun itself and in the tube.
I don't care who you are, that's a formidable fighting tool in anyone's book!
I also have a 56 round bandoleer of 12 ga buck shot and slugs close by. But regardless of that, I still have 20 rounds attached to the gun.
Regarding Remington 870's. Wilson Combat owns Scattergun Technologies and have a "rebuild program" for used Rem 870's which is very economical (Remington Steal). You can pick up a old used 870 at any pawn shop relatively cheap and send it in to Wilson Combat and have it upgraded to a real reliable fighting shotgun for a couple hundred bucks.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
870 vs. the 590... Both are good guns. The 590 is built like a tank, and is a bit heavier and larger. It also has a tang mounted safety. Some like that, others do not.
The 870; a time proven classic. Its hard to beat the 870 in any catagory. If it were me, I'd buy the 870 time and time again. But, there is nothing wrong with a 590. And don't confuse the 500 for the 590. There is a huge differences, they are not the same.
There has been lots of good, and even great, advice given in this thread.
Living in an apartment, something I refuse to do BTW, changes the "scope" of things considerably in my opinion. If I was the OP I'd stick with what Bark'n and Sixto said and ignore myself.
I love a shotgun from an barricaded position, ala Massad Ayoob. There are some 12 Guage rounds that I find the felt recoil to be less than some 20 Guage rounds. The thing is, you will have to expirment around and find what you, or she, likes.
If the shotgun is not something she is comfortable with, but wanting better than a handgun, have you considered a handgun caliber carbine? I'm not referring to the Kel Tec's here, but something like a Colt AR in 9mm.
There are many options out there that are "appropriate" for an apartment, one just has to seek them out. Good luck, take care and stay safe. Please do let us know what you decide on, as I'm curious.
870 vs. the 590... Both are good guns. The 590 is built like a tank, and is a bit heavier and larger. It also has a tang mounted safety. Some like that, others do not.
The 870; a time proven classic. Its hard to beat the 870 in any catagory. If it were me, I'd buy the 870 time and time again. But, there is nothing wrong with a 590. And don't confuse the 500 for the 590. There is a huge differences, they are not the same.
Ultimately I want to have two shotguns - his and hers. If she's home alone she will be better able to defend herself, and if we're both home we should be pretty well able to defend ourselves.
Personal preference... They are both fighting shotguns with decent reputations as far as I'm concerned. USMC uses Moss 590's.
My Mossberg 590 has an 8 round tube magazine with the 20 inch barrel. I have a 6 round Side Saddle mounted to the receiver and a 6 round Eagle Industries pouch mounted on the shoulder stock. That's 20 rounds of mixed 00 buck and slugs mounted to the gun itself and in the tube.
I don't care who you are, that's a formidable fighting tool in anyone's book!
I also have a 56 round bandoleer of 12 ga buck shot and slugs close by. But regardless of that, I still have 20 rounds attached to the gun. [/B]
I was just looking through the Mossberg website and think this beauty might be a contender: The 590A1 9 Shot.
At 41 inches long and 7 1/4 pounds it shouldn't be too big for her to handle. It's 2.5 inches longer than the 870 Express 7 shot but slightly lighter, and two extra rounds never hurt either. Hmm...
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Originally Posted by SIXTO
