Decided on an Optic for the Noveske - And a Little About Cross Dominant Shooting

Decided on an Optic for the Noveske - And a Little About Cross Dominant Shooting

This is a discussion on Decided on an Optic for the Noveske - And a Little About Cross Dominant Shooting within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well after I don't know how many years of pondering on what optic I wanted to mount on my AR I finally made a decision. ...

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Thread: Decided on an Optic for the Noveske - And a Little About Cross Dominant Shooting

  1. #1
    JD [OP]
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    Decided on an Optic for the Noveske - And a Little About Cross Dominant Shooting

    Well after I don't know how many years of pondering on what optic I wanted to mount on my AR I finally made a decision.

    I'm going with a Millet DMS.

    Given my cross dominance issues, I figured that if I was going to have to shut one eye to get proper sight picture that I might as well have some magnification available. For those not knowing what I'm talking about: I'm right handed, left eye dominant and in order to get a clear sight picture with an Aimpoint/EoTech etc; I have to shoot lefty and I'm just too stubborn, cheap and lazy to change.

    I was about to go the Aimpoint w/ X3 magnifier, but I just don't want that much crap hanging on the rifle. Not to mention that I'd be paying for two optics and two mounts.

    When it came to looking at units w/ magnification none really fit what what I was looking for until I came across the Millet. The other major contender was the Leupold CQ/T but the Millet goes to X4 and the lower cost was attractive.

    Edited to add: Another unit I was looking at was the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4X, but I don't care for the current selection of reticles, however the tritium power reticle I think is a definite benefit and once I try out the mounting scheme below, I will probably start shopping around to an Accupoint 1-4X of either the green or red triangle variety End edit

    I managed to find a DMS for sale on another forum and picket it up at a decent price. Now I just need to figure how I'm going to go about mounting the scope on the rifle. I have what appears to be a neat, somewhat original idea, but if will be costly and have to wait.

    It seems that from the pictures I've seen with the DMS installed on an AR that in order to get proper eye relief when using the magnification that the rear objective will be over the folded down rear BUIS, so there's no hope for co-witnessing the irons. Looking at most standard mounts this means that in order to switch to the irons from the optic in case of a failure that I would probably have to go with some from of QD option being either screw type posts or throw levers which would mean that if I ever had to go to the irons, I'd be either discarding my optic or fumbling for a place to put it.

    What I came across that appears to be a better option for what I want to do is the LaRue QD Pivot mount.

    I figure that if I mount the scope using two pivot mounts that in the event of a failure I can just grab the scope, pull it to the rear and rotate if out of the way and lift the BUIS. In order to make sure that I would have enough rail, I found an ARMS #38-EX Swan rail on another forum that will add another 1.5" of rail and still provide a BUIS. As this is somewhat trial and error as I haven't mounted an optic on an AR before, I'm buying used parts to keep cost down until I figure out if this set up will work for me.

    Unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to shell out $300+ for the LaRue mounts as the only other maker of such a product is Burris, and that product won't be out until some time in 2010 .

    So am I crazy or does this sound like a decent set up?
    Last edited by JD; September 11th, 2009 at 02:12 PM.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Sounds like a decent setup....I too am cross dominant like you right hand/left eye. It can be a real pain to find the right gear sometimes.
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    Senior Member Array Knuckledrager's Avatar
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    JD, I don't know anything about the Millet optic. It looks a whole lot like the S&B Short Dot. I do know that the mount can make or break the whole set up. You really can't do any better than Larue. Money well spent! The premium rifle deserves premium hardware like Larue.
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    JD [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckledrager View Post
    JD, I don't know anything about the Millet optic. It looks a whole lot like the S&B Short Dot. I do know that the mount can make or break the whole set up. You really can't do any better than Larue. Money well spent! The premium rifle deserves premium hardware like Larue.
    I wish I had the $$$ for a Short Dot, but $2000+ is a little out of my reach. From what I've read elsewhere, the DMS is the poorman's short dot with a retail of around $250. I will probably go with the LaRue pivot mounts as with a movable rig I'm going to want it to remain as stable as possible and I'm not very familiar with Burris' products.

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    Hmmm. I'm trying to come up with a reason why this won't work.... nothing is jumping out at me. I think its a darn good idea. I have to give it some more thought though.

    A few words about Millet; I have a few of there lower end and one of their higher end scopes. All are good stuff. Millet builds a really nice product for not a whole lot of money. Even though I have no experiance with the DMS, I'd be confident in buying one.
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    Mo
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    So you're spending $600 to set up a used Millett DMS? Why not spend $600 and get a used ACOG? I've used both and the advantages to the ACOG are just about limitless. Just a few here...

    The ACOG is uber reliable, the DMS is a good scope for the price but you get what you pay for. It's a great $250 scope. Optics aren't stellar by any means.

    The DMS is freaking HUGE. If you haven't seen one in person, it's way bigger than it looks in photos. ACOGs are lighter and more compact. A DMS with dual swing-out rings on an extended rail is going to look monstrous and feel like a boat anchor.

    ACOGs don't use batteries.

    The thought of a $600 DMS setup is mind-boggling to me. I don't know the backstory with your Noveske, but if it's a factory Noveske gun you have a top-end AR. No reason to settle for beginner-level optics, and there's sure as heck not a reason to spend $600 on a DMS plus mounts!

    Sorry if I'm ranting, I feel like the guy watching a friend buy a new Hyundai and a set of chrome wheels when there's a lightly-used Corvette sitting in the next lot for the same $$.

    At least check out the equipment exchange over at the big AR board before you buy the DMS.

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    Mo
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    I just reread your post and you've already got the Millet apparently, so you're aware of the size. $600 on a DMS....man.

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    I would contact LaRue and see what they think. They may have already set up something similar or can direct you to someone who has.
    How solid is the pivot mount? Good enough to maintain returnable zero? Will the millet tube fit above your BIUS? Maybe a Arms #40L might be a better BUIS?
    Maybe check over on Ar15.com , someone probably has done something similar , or atleast tried.
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    Member Array JohnHenry's Avatar
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    I'm curious. I have the same issue since I got Lasik (left eye dominant, trying to shoot right-handed) and see my Eotech as a little fuzzy, with an offset reticle. When I shoot left-handed, it's clear and sharp, so just an eye issue. I'm just shooting left-handed, but would rather not.

    So how does the scope you have affect that? Is it clear and sharp for you? ?I guess since it's a conventional crosshairs with a holographic dot, that may help, right?
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    Sounds like an ingenious solution. I obviously haven't tried this, but I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work. I have a "flip to side" mount on my 3x magnifier that allows me to keep the BUIS under the optic until needed - it works well (though is, of course, a different style than the one you have under consideration). Let us know how it works!

    As a side note, what Noveske do you have? I have been trying to buy the SPR that they have in stock right now, but can't get them to answer an email after three weeks even though I am sitting here with cash in hand for an in-stock item... :(
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #11
    JD [OP]
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    Even if if go with the LaRue mounts, I'll be in under $500. With my current set up. As for the ACOG, I'd like one, but I'm not sure if I want a fixed power optic and think I would like the variable option more.

    I'm curious. I have the same issue since I got Lasik (left eye dominant, trying to shoot right-handed) and see my Eotech as a little fuzzy, with an offset reticle. When I shoot left-handed, it's clear and sharp, so just an eye issue. I'm just shooting left-handed, but would rather not.

    So how does the scope you have affect that? Is it clear and sharp for you? ?I guess since it's a conventional crosshairs with a holographic dot, that may help, right?
    I haven't tried it yet as the optic just came in yesterday. But in your case, all you would have to do is close your left eye to get good sight picture on the EOTech, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a holographic optic.

    No matter what optic I use to shoot right handed I'll have to close my left eye.

    An instructor of mine said this of eye dominance issues.

    "If one eye is closed, that only leaves one eye to be dominant" That solved a lot of my issues. He brought up the point that in most "serious" situations that the tunnel vision effect will negate having both eyes open anyway.

    I've played around for a while with m shooting stance with a pistol and I've found a position that allows me to shoot with both eyes open, it's taken a while but it's finally becoming ingrained.

    Anyway...

    Overall cost of this is reasonable IMHO for what I'm basically considering an experiment. If this bombs or becomes more cumbersome than I want, I can off load the parts and actually manage to make my money back and go with an ACOG.

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    VIP Member Array shooterX's Avatar
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    I've played around for a while with m shooting stance with a pistol and I've found a position that allows me to shoot with both eyes open, it's taken a while but it's finally becoming ingrained.
    JD can you elaborate on this, I too am right handed, left eye dominate and have been working on a method that will allow me to keep both eyes open when using a pistol or revovler. I've been trying to angle the gun toward my left eye of late, don't really care for this at all.

    Once you get the optic set up let us know how it works for you, I am seriously considering either an AR or M1A after having issue supplying my M1 carbine with hollow points for SD/HD. Thanks

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    JD [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post

    As a side note, what Noveske do you have? I have been trying to buy the SPR that they have in stock right now, but can't get them to answer an email after three weeks even though I am sitting here with cash in hand for an in-stock item... :(

    I have the N4 LIght Basic Recce 16" I wanted a mid-length gas system and longer sight radius and a removable "muzzle device" without worrying about the paperwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    JD can you elaborate on this, I too am right handed, left eye dominate and have been working on a method that will allow me to keep both eyes open when using a pistol or revovler. I've been trying to angle the gun toward my left eye of late, don't really care for this at all.
    What I found to work for me instead of tilting the gun, I turn my head to the right so that my chin is indexed on my shoulder. I've found this position to work in either a modified Weaver or the isosceles stance. I loose a small amount of peripheral on the left, pick up more on the right, but overall have a wider field of view compared to shooting with one eye.

    Had more range time been possible, it would have been smoother/quicker transition. It's taken about two years of casual shooting to index my chin to my shoulder on the draw. Since the move and the arrival of our son, it's been hard to get the needed practice in.

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    BAC
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    JD, make sure you get back to us with how that setup works for you. That's a damn clever idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    As a side note, what Noveske do you have? I have been trying to buy the SPR that they have in stock right now, but can't get them to answer an email after three weeks even though I am sitting here with cash in hand for an in-stock item... :(
    They tend to answer the phone more readily than answer emails, but if you're overseas I can see the reservation of making a call. If you want I can give 'em a ring and ask for you.


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    JD,

    My only concern with the setup is that the pivoting rings are not connected. That leaves all the alignment coming from the DMS. I would hate to twist the setup as you were pivoting it and have it tweak the scope or something. If I were looking for this solution, I would see if LaRue had a 2 ring 1 piece setup or if they could make you one.

    Thanks for the link to the pivot through. I might have to put one of those on my SOCOM 16 with a dot optic.

    CyBuzz.

    P.S. Where in Central Iowa? I am in WDM.

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