Optics (red dot) and magnification question? (AR15)

This is a discussion on Optics (red dot) and magnification question? (AR15) within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For you AR guys. Ive been a handgun guy my whole life, but just now getting into rifles. I have picked out an AR with ...

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Thread: Optics (red dot) and magnification question? (AR15)

  1. #1
    Member Array hihosilver's Avatar
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    Optics (red dot) and magnification question? (AR15)

    For you AR guys. Ive been a handgun guy my whole life, but just now getting into rifles. I have picked out an AR with a flip up rear site(see below) and will probably go with some sort of red dot 1X to mount behind the flip up sight. For those that have a setup similair to this, do you find yourself wishing you had magnification? Does anyone have both , a scope with magnification and a red dot 1X sight? Back to my setup, what kind of red dot optics would you suggest in the $250 to $300 range. What about mounting a scope for long shots and just using the flip up iron sights for upclose work? Again, Im just starting out on the AR platform, so any advice you can give, Im all ears.

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    JD
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    I just went through this in part in another thread, but it's more in depth on the mounts....

    There's pretty much only one scope out there that is a 1X dot scope but has magnification up to 4X in that price range, it's the scope I bought. The Millet DMS

    It's big, it's heavier, but it will do what I want it to do.

    Regarding using a scope for long shots and the irons for close up work, an optic with magnification doesn't work like a regular red dot and you won't be able to use the irons without removing your optic.

    With an optic with magnification you have to have the proper eye relief, in most cases this will put the rear objective over the charging handle, if you shoot with your nose to the charging handle (NTCH) you need to get an extended rail to extend the optic to a point where you can achieve proper eye relief.

    There are other options to get a 1X with an option of magnification, but that will require two mounts, and two optics. Basically you're looking at an Aimpoint or EoTech with a 3X flip out magnifier.

    My thing is that I want ONE optic, not two and I don't want a bunch of crap hanging off the side of my upper receiver when not in use. What good is the increaesed peripheral view of a 1X optic shooting with both eyes open if you have a 3X magnifier blocking some of that view?

    Any way, here's the thread I started a while back with some ideas I had, I need to update it as I've heard back from LaRue...

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-shooting.html

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Check out the Burris AR-332 @ $299 (Cabella's). It already has a flat-top AR mount, true 3x magnification, and an illuminated reticle that's pre-calibrated for 5.56 NATO spec bullet-drop out to 500 yards. The CQB (Close Quarter Battle) zero-drop aim point gives fast up-close target aquisition like a 1x Red Dot. But the 3X makes it a low-budget alternative to the $$$$ ACOG. And the magnification isn't too high, so you can shoot with both eyes open with good eye relief (meaning fast). It's a step-up from the low-end Red dots plus Mako magnifiers, but a step-down from Trijicon or Aimpoint (Mil Spec) optics. I've got one on my M4(non-Colt clone) flat-top & it suit's me fine.
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I went out and bought a $50 TruGlo that I have found works real well in the couple of 3-gun matches I participated in. Back in my USPSA days I used a DPMS with a C-more on top for about 10 years, it was pound-for-pound the best dot sight I ever used, and will replace the TruGlo this Christmas with one on the Sportical I bought before the election to replace my Bidness Gun....

    Oh yeah, and I forgot. I don't use any magnification on my bidness gun; I much prefer both eyes open, if I need to engage anything past 100 yards, I grab the bolt gun, otherwise known as Mr. 308......
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    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    I use the Aimpoint CompM3 on a LaRue Tactical mount with the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier on the LaRue pivot mount.

    It solves the problem easily. Pivot the the magnifier out of the way and your ready for close CCO work, pivot the magnifier up in the tandem position with your Aimpoint red dot and you got 3x magnification.

    It's expensive though, you could purchase another rifle for the cost of the two Aimpoint optics and the LaRue mounts.

    A lot of men use the ACOG fixed 4x with a small J-Point red dot or Doctor optic mounted on top of the ACOG. They like this as well, but again Triji ACOGS and J-Points are expensive also.
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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    I have the Tru Glo 2x red dot on one AR, and a Tru Glo 2x with the changeable red or green dot and different reticles on an AK. Big fan of those.

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    Member Array David in MI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygod View Post
    I use the Aimpoint CompM3 on a LaRue Tactical mount with the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier on the LaRue pivot mount.

    It solves the problem easily. Pivot the the magnifier out of the way and your ready for close CCO work, pivot the magnifier up in the tandem position with your Aimpoint red dot and you got 3x magnification.

    It's expensive though, you could purchase another rifle for the cost of the two Aimpoint optics and the LaRue mounts.

    A lot of men use the ACOG fixed 4x with a small J-Point red dot or Doctor optic mounted on top of the ACOG. They like this as well, but again Triji ACOGS and J-Points are expensive also.
    I looked at a Trijicon ACOG on Friday (TAO1NSN820; NIB for $820) that was set up similarly to the one you mentioned in your post, Skygod, but it had iron sights on top instead of a red dot Eotech style optic. As I looked it over I was thinking that this sort of optic may offer the shooter the best of both worlds, magnification as well as an alternative for shorter distances (either iron on top or another small optic). I am now wondering whether this setup would create another issue as it would require two slightly different cheek positions. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I don't want to hijack the thread so if this isn't helpful to hihosilver, I am happy to discuss in another thread or via PM.

    I am a TOTAL newbie to this so my question is coming from a position of ignorance

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    What EVER you do don't buy without trying first. Some people have problems with red dot sights and best to know before you spend your coin. It's a whole new animal and takes some getting used to after target pistol shooting.

    Get with someone that has what you're interested in and give it a try.

    ETA I'd not go without my EoTech 512 now on my AR. It's very fast and very accurate.
    Last edited by NC Bullseye; September 26th, 2009 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Added EoTech info

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    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in MI View Post
    I looked at a Trijicon ACOG on Friday (TAO1NSN820; NIB for $820) that was set up similarly to the one you mentioned in your post, Skygod, but it had iron sights on top instead of a red dot Eotech style optic. As I looked it over I was thinking that this sort of optic may offer the shooter the best of both worlds, magnification as well as an alternative for shorter distances (either iron on top or another small optic). I am now wondering whether this setup would create another issue as it would require two slightly different cheek positions. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I don't want to hijack the thread so if this isn't helpful to hihosilver, I am happy to discuss in another thread or via PM.

    I am a TOTAL newbie to this so my question is coming from a position of ignorance
    I've seen some funky setups, but it's all in what user/operator feels comfortable with.

    I've seen ACOG users with T-1 micro's on a quarter mount out front of the ACOG up on the rail. This requires the user to rotate the rifle slightly canted to use the T-1 red dot for close up work. Not my cup of tea, but it works for some people.

    Also seen a couple of EOtechs mounted this same way, again not my cup of tea.

    I don't like having to gain eye relief if I'm in a room the size of this bedroom to shoot haji if I can keep both eyes opened with zero parallax with the Aimpoint or EOtech, but some can do it, I'm just not one that likes the concept unless I've got a micro dot of some kind on top of the ACOG. Again, the J-Point or Doctor optic is ideal if your sold on the ACOG as your primary optic.

    I've already got enuf stuff hanging off the rails of my rifles, I don't need another optic up by the front sight or hanging off the rail next to my vertical foregrip.
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    Member Array Shotdown's Avatar
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    I'd spend the money on an Aimpoint M3.

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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Here's another funky design from Larue Tactical for mounting an Aimpoint Micro T-1 on top of an ACOG mount.

    HERE: Aimpoint Micro T-1 w/ LT696 ACOG QD Mount Combo
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    What EVER you do don't buy without trying first. Some people have problems with red dot sights and best to know before you spend your coin. It's a whole new animal and takes some getting used to after target pistol shooting.
    +1!

    I personally had no problem with transition but I have seen first hand folks seriously struggle to make use of an EOTech in specific as well as other 'red dot' type knockoffs.

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