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Which AR brand do you like better?

  • Stag Arms

    Votes: 38 70.4%
  • Smith & Wesson

    Votes: 16 29.6%

AR Opinion, Stag or S&W

6K views 47 replies 21 participants last post by  BAC 
#1 ·
I am thinking of getting myself an AR. I have an AK, but I want the American EBR in the collection as well.:image035:

I have narrowed it down, for my own reasons, to either a Stag Arms or a S&W AR. I would like to see what you all think. Just curious as to what the members here think is the better AR between these two.

And if you want to pitch a different brand, go a head. I'll listen to what ever you want to tell me.
 
#2 ·
#5 ·
I don't know anything about the Smith unit. Had a Stag 15 3L, myself, and liked it well enough.

If I were to get into the AR-15 game, I would take a serious look at this unit: Noveske N4 Light Shorty, Basic. It's in the $1500 neighborhood, plus extras, whereas the Stag's about $500 less for a more-basic AR.

I think that my Stag, fully configured with lefty/ambi everything, sights, and a better grip, was under $1200, including a stack of 4-20rd and 6-30rd magazines.

Something about the shorter layout has grabbed me. I'm much more comfortable with the Marlin 1894 .44mag lever-action rifle w/ a 16" bbl, AR platform with 10-12" bbl, 12ga shotgun with 12-14" bbl. For me, at least, the balance and ability to deal with coming around corners is helped sufficiently to reduce my anger over the BATFE being involved in such a decision. Had to do the ATF two-step on the shorty Remington 870P, with the 14" bbl. My Stag AR-15 had the standard 16" carbine bbl, but the Noveske "shorty" comes with a 10.5", requiring the NFA mess. *sigh*
 
#7 ·
If your not looking for a gas piston gun, then I'd stay away from the S&W. Just my personal, and semi professional opinion.

Actually I'd rather go with BCM or LMT or maybe even Rock River before Stag or S&W.

If you look at Bravo Company USA, Inc. AR-15, M16, M4 Tactical Gear, Parts, Accessories. they have the BCM uppers and you purchase a lower from just about anybody and keep your rifle under $2000

As you can see in my recent thread I ponied up the LWRC M6A2 chambered in 6.8 SPC with a 14.7" bbl. and I couldn't be happier with my purchase, of course the LWRC is a short stroke gas piston, not a gas impingement operation, so the cost is probably out of the range that your looking for.

Go with BCM or LMT. That's just my humble opinion based on the quality of the uppers and lowers that I have owned and or shot. MPI tested, HPT tested, M4 feed ramps, M4 barrels extension and 4150 steel barrels with 1:7 twist.

Read more about the BCM uppers over @ Bravo Company USA, Inc. AR-15, M16, M4 Tactical Gear, Parts, Accessories.
 
#15 ·
I'm with you on this one.
 
#10 ·
Of the two choices go with Stag. They use CMT mfg. parts and CMT makes parts for the .mil guns.

If you can though, I would take the previously offered advice and go with a BCM upper and order a BCM lower to mate it to. Colt quality at a great price, for sure.
 
#11 ·
I own 2 stags (plus some others)- they have worked great - If you were going into battle, I would recommend something else. But for the 2-3000 rounds a year and with maintenance, they with be a dependable gun.
 
#12 ·
I vote S&W....but why not have any other options on this one to vote for?

Personally I would build it with mil-spec parts from spikestactical.com and other reputable sites.....but if it HAD to be b/w those two I would go with the S&W.
 
#14 ·
I've had both. Sold the S&W, kept the Stag. But really...you're picking the fly crap out of the pepper. There's not enough quality/durability difference between 'em to make anything but a subjective choice. (IMHO, of course)
 
#19 ·
Yup, normally I'd back Sixto - but RRA just doesn't match up when compared to a true TDP following mil-spec rifle. They have great fit and finish, but if this is a defensive rifle, it should at least meet the military's minimum requirement, right?
 
#20 ·
I would go with Rock River or DPMS. We have a couple of S&W horror story threads up and running right now with a couple of bad experiences which would keep me from ever getting a S&W AR rifle. Stag has a lefty version which makes it a draw to lefties but I have also heard a few negative things regarding their quality control as well.

But I'm definitely a No Go with the S&W.
 
#21 ·
I will not recommend DPMS until they can do better than 1 year (and still going) orders. :mad:

(Rather glad I couldn't get in on that group buy, in retrospect.)


-B
 
#23 ·
I agree, pick what suits your needs. for me, in an M4 style rifle for defense I want the following things that RRA doesn't offer:

M4 Feedramps - for reliable feeding

A F/A BCG with the proper extractor spring and that has been HPT/MPI tested. I also should pay $1K and then have to stake the gas key - All of this also aids in reliable feeding

A 1:7 twist barrel that ha been HPT/MPI tested - A 1:7 allows stabilization of heavier and more defensive suited ammo and the testing insures I'm getting a quality barrel.

Again, why would I want something that doesn't meet the minimum requirements set out my the gov't, especially when it is in the same basic price range?
 
#25 ·
I have a Stag upper and it's great. If it's good enough for this guy (link below), it's for damn sure good enough for me. I would trust my life with this gun for sure.

By the way, don't get too caught up on the staked gas key, or the 1.7 barrel twist. It's pretty cheap to get done or easy to do yourself. The only ones I have seen come lose are the ones that were supposed to be staked properly! Half the time, it seems like that is what makes it come lose.

I shoot .223 and 5.56 all day long and you will find that the added grain weight argument is weak. Unless you want to shoot odd ammo, it's not too big of a deal. Most .223 ammo is 55-grain, and either gun will eat it up.

I would have to agree with the RR or Stag over DPMS and S&W.

STAG
 
#26 ·
I shoot .223 and 5.56 all day long and you will find that the added grain weight argument is weak. Unless you want to shoot odd ammo, it's not too big of a deal. Most .223 ammo is 55-grain, and either gun will eat it up.
So people like DocGKR and pretty much everyone who does any kind of terminal ballistics that recommend 75gr BTHP (Like Hornaday TAP) are just blowing smoke? Don't think so. I'll stick with my TAP for HD in the M4.
 
#28 ·
You sir, remember incorrectly. I have a Colt 6920 and a BCM upper on a lower I assembled. Both 1:7, both stabilize 55gr-75gr and up, giving me far more options than a 1:9 twist barrel.

I was was providing empirical evidence for the OP so that he knew why certain features are considered more desirable - at least to me and to people who I recognize as being subject matter experts versus just Bubba at the range.

If a rifle can't meet the minimum standard, what standard are they measuring themselves by? Let me ask it this way - if you can have a barrel that gives you more options or less options for the same price, which would you choose? If you're looking at the S&W above for $1K, I can find you a mil-spec, TDP meeting rifle for that price or within $100 easy. It will be more reliable, longer-lasting and will give you more options.
This forum supposedly is for defensive rifles, not varmint rigs, and people who use a carbine every day all pretty much agree on what should go into a rifle.
 
#30 ·
One quick statement on "standards". We get caught up in mil spec standards; for what reason?

Formula one has standards, as does NASCAR, as does NHRA. Does that mean that I should spend my vehicle budget making sure my family sedan is up to those standards? No, of course not. My money is going to go into realiablity, safety and comfort. My standards that fit my needs.
Again, none of us are talking about M4's or M16's. We are talking AR15's. While they may look a like, there are a lot of differences... and different standards for each.

Does my M4 that actually sees "service" meet military specs? You bet. It exceeds them. Does my AR15? No. But it does exceed them in other areas making a better rifle for what I intend to use it for.
 
#31 ·
For all practical range purposes, the Rock River or Stag will do what "most" need it to do. My standards and requirements are higher. I require a AR that looks the part, thusly I require and AR that "is" the part. Some needs may vary.

If you can get by with slightly less in the TDP department then by all means, go ahead. But, there really is no excuse to not be educated as to what those differences really are. I only wish I knew the difference a long time before I actually did. I would have impacted several decisions along the way.

Know what you are buying. If then you know, and you opt for a hobby AR anyway, at least you can't chalk it up to "not knowng".

Sixto, I think we both are in agreement in priniple. We usully do. ;)
 
#32 ·
Know what you are buying. If then you know, and you opt for a hobby AR anyway, at least you can't chalk it up to "not knowng".

Sixto, I think we both are in agreement in principle. We usually do. ;)
We agree in principle, but if your buying an AR, its a "hobby AR". Nobody is buying one to take to Iraq or Vietnam. So, I'm saying if you are working to keep the price under a certain number, put the money in areas that is going to give you the best bang.

Its like buying a Peterbilt for your daily driver. Sure, Peterbilts are great, but I'm never going to haul 40,000 pounds across the country. So, I'd rather take that same money, and buy a very nice and comfortable sedan.
I'd rather have a more accurate rifle with some 'extra's to make it that much sweeter than some overbuild in areas that don't matter a hill of beans in a AR15. Sure, M4 feed ramps are important, in a M4. We are not talking about the very different M4's are the very different uses and wear patterns they see. We are talking about a semi automatic AR15.

Interesting side note, Mil Spec doesn't necessarily mean better. It is in effort to standardize rifles from several manufactures that will or might see military service. Because Mil Spec calls for this or that, it doesn't mean that its the best there is. For example, the A2 bird cage. Is that the best flash suppressor? Hardly. Its adequate (that is whats on both of mine) but there are better out there.
 
#34 ·
By all means, grab what works. I just prefer to have the best I can get. As close to TDP as possible in an AR or M4 is just that. Shot peened bolt, HP, the works.

You don't want a stronger bolt or pressure tested system and such, don't spend the money. Just remember the principle, you tend to get what you pay for in firearms.
 
#37 ·
An AR need never see war service to require the durability of a rifle destined for war service. Someone who shoots ten or more thousand rounds per year in competition and training settings is going to need a bit more of that durability than someone who shoots only occasionally. Again, it comes down to what you expect or plan to do with your rifle.

Mike, if you absolutely cannot go above $900, a Rock River Arms should serve you well. Buy the complete upper, build or buy the lower half, grab a Magpul MBUS rear sight for good measure (I like my LaRue rear BUIS and the new Daniel Defense rear BUIS, but the Magpul sight is half the cost) and you've got a shooter for a little under your given price. Make friends with someone with a MOACKS tool to properly stake the gas keys (RRA doesn't) and make sure that your extractor spring has the black insert (RRA does) and you should be good to go. Remember to factor in the cost of magazines and ammo.

Personally, if it were my money I would save up a little bit more for a BCM upper + LMT lower, a Charles Daly Defense DM4LE, or a Daniel Defense XV. All will serve you well, and all can be had for about a grand if you look around.


-B
 
#40 ·
Re read what I wrote. I didn't back track anything. I said your analogies don't stack up beacause I am making comparisons between different manufacturer's of the SAME weapons platform that happens to have a standard associated with it, you are comparing different platforms and vehicles that are purpose built for different purposes. This isn't hard to understand.
 
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