Thinking about an M1

Thinking about an M1

This is a discussion on Thinking about an M1 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I know it's a great rifle. I'm thinking of getting one through the CMP, which I can do now that I've joined the VFW. My ...

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Thread: Thinking about an M1

  1. #1
    Member Array Laser Sailor's Avatar
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    Thinking about an M1

    I know it's a great rifle. I'm thinking of getting one through the CMP, which I can do now that I've joined the VFW.

    My question is, who's ordered through the CMP and how long did it take to actually get the rifle?

    What's all this about chamber and muzzle erosion?


    a great little tag line I read somewhere:

    "The M1 Garand: For when you really need to show someone that their cover is merely concealment."
    MA2, USN

    When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state". Love your country, but never trust its government.
    -- Robert A. Heinlein.


  2. #2
    Member Array joshe's Avatar
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    My rifle coach ordered one maybe 6 years ago and I seems like it took about 4 months for it to come in.

  3. #3
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    I like the tag! Expect 6mos, it should say on their site.

    M1 Garand Sales

    How 'bout:

    The 30-06, turning cover into concealment for over 100 years.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  4. #4
    Member Array Laser Sailor's Avatar
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    or

    "The M1, it'll keep those asian gangbangers off your lawn"

    What movie did I just watch?

    Actually through my powers of google fu i was able to find the answers to my questions, some guy on youtube explained it to me. I'm committed to buying one as soon as funds are avaliable.
    MA2, USN

    When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state". Love your country, but never trust its government.
    -- Robert A. Heinlein.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    How long the CMP takes is highly variable, depending on the number of orders they have in hand. Currently the wait is 3-6 months (depending on what grade you order), but that could change at any time.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Sailor View Post
    What's all this about chamber and muzzle erosion?
    "All this" is regarding how much wear the chamber and muzzle have experienced. These two things can affect accuracy.

    There is much info out there on throat erosion, crown/muzzle damage, and their effects on accuracy and aesthetics.

    Here is a decent overview of throat erosion and gauges to measure it: click.

    At a certain point, every firearm needs the barrel replaced. The measurements are indicators of just how far along the path the given barrel has gone toward needing replacement. You might feel it needs it sooner or later, depending on your feelings on these two measurements.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #7
    Member Array bgglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Sailor View Post
    or

    "The M1, it'll keep those asian gangbangers off your lawn"

    What movie did I just watch?

    Actually through my powers of google fu i was able to find the answers to my questions, some guy on youtube explained it to me. I'm committed to buying one as soon as funds are avaliable.
    "Gran Torino" I'm guessing?
    Current handguns: Glock models 19, 22C, 23, 27, 29, & 36; Kimber Pro CDP and Polymer Custom; Kahr PM9 & CW9; S&W models 6906, 386PD, 66; Taurus 85 Ultralite Ti; Browning Buckmark;

    Former handguns: S&W 4"686, 4" 620 & Sigma .380, Taurus 617 Ti, Kimber Pro Eclipse, Walther P22, Glock 30 & 33.

  8. #8
    Member Array Laser Sailor's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the help. The CMP is the way to go for an M1, for sure. I just found out they can fedex it right to my door, no FFL needed.
    MA2, USN

    When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state". Love your country, but never trust its government.
    -- Robert A. Heinlein.

  9. #9
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    I got an M1 and M1 carbine from CMP. They both took about a month to get but that was pre O. The rifles are graded by condition but it really is luck of the draw as to the real condition. The M1, (Sprinfield), was on on loan to the Greek Army and it was in pretty rough shape. I refinished it and now it looks pretty good! The carbine, (Inland), was on loan to the Italian Army and it was in great shape. I didn't have to do anything to it at all! Each one cost $495.00.

    M1Garand 021.jpg

  10. #10
    New Member Array beardog's Avatar
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    If you do not want to wait take a ride to one of the CMP stores. That is what I did. I went to the Camp Perry store when I was in Ohio last summer. The people there were very helpfull in what to look for and helped me pick out a real nice service grade M1. The other nice thing is that you get to pick the rifle not them. When I got mine home and took it appart for cleaning I found the initals of the person it was issued to carved under the barrel. I thouhgt that this was pretty cool. I was also able to pick up a can of ammo pretty cheap also.

  11. #11
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    I'll share the story of my M1, obtained from the DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship), predecessor to the CMP.





    I sent the order off to DCM certified/return receipt requested on the last day of 1985. It included certified funds for $108.50, the purchase price. On Saturday March 21, 1987 the postman brought this M1 to my door just as we were about to leave to go to my grandfather's 93rd birthday party. I had to take time enough to open the box and examine the rifle in all its cosmolined glory. My wife took a photo of me fondling it.

    The rifle was sound and checked out a 2 with a throat gauge. For the next twenty seasons it could be found on the firing line at the monthly matches at the Central Texas Rifle and Pistol club with occasional trips to Fort Worth to the old range on Silver Creek road along with a couple to the State matches. After a couple of seasons Colonel Snodgrass of Fort Worth put a trigger job on it that wouldn't quit. Nice, crisp, and legal. The trigger lasted about a decade and then one fine match afternoon decided to double while shooting prone/rapid fire. One round on target and one round through the painted steel No. 12 marker hanging on the target frame above and right of the target. This represents the only time the rifle has ever malfunctioned in the 22 years I've had it. I mixed and matched parts from an acquaintance's extensive M1 parts bins to come up with a eminently usable trigger pull that proved to be almost as good as Colonel Snodgrass's work.

    I've picked this M1 apart, comparing part number revisions with references in various books on the M1. The rifle's Springfield Armory receiver indicates a production range falling in the month of October of 1943. Its barrel is marked SA 6-44. Some references say that a barrel dated within 3 months of receiver production may be reasonably assumed to be original assembly. Since 6 months separates barrel and receiver this is assumed to be a rebuild. I don't know how experts know these things. The bolt has the correct revision number for an October 1943 Springfield receiver. The op rod features the correct revision for the receiver/barrel and most importantly still features its squared, unmodified with radius cut, "dogleg" mid section. The stock is correct for a 1943-1944 production M1. The trigger guard and floor plate are correct. The trigger group is a mixture of World War II parts, both Springfield and Winchester, and having various improper revision numbers. It was that way before I reworked it as well. The gas cylinder plug and the rear sight assembly are of post WWII style. The visible portion of the barrel is not bright around the chamber where it is screwed into the receiver which indicates the rifle was re-Parkerized. Relative correctness is not important to me. This is my M1 and I like it just fine as it is.

    It's just one of millions of rebuilt M1s in the world. If only it could talk. Since all components but the sight and gas plug are WWII production I'd like to think that it was rehab'ed right at the end of World War II and placed into storage just for me. Did it see action during the War or perhaps train soldiers? Who knows. It could have gone to Korea. It could have been one of those poor M1s issued to raw recruits in the early 1960s. Donald Henderson, a friend of mine now passed on, told of how he spent time in the Army on maneuvers at Fort Hood in 1963. They were issued the M1. Once, while they were all standing around waiting for whatever soldiers are required to wait for, some soldiers became bored and mounted their bayonets on their M1s and began throwing them like spears at the rock hard live oak trees so prevalent in that region of Central Texas. Rifles bounced off and clattered to the ground. Bayonets were frequently snapped. Sometimes though the rifle would stick in the trunk of a tree, slowly oscillating back and forth on the springy bayonet.

    I shudder to think of such criminal misuse of a rifle. This one's always been kept carefully cleaned and lubricated. I got turned on to Sweet's 7.62 bore cleaner pretty soon after acquiring the M1. After each use the bore is soaked per the directions on the bottle until no sign of green could be found on a patch. The old wartime production barrel seems to group better today than it did when I first got the rifle and began playing with it. The rifle has seen a lot of use but the surfaces of the wood and metal look scarcely different than when I cleaned it up in March of 1987. I've managed to keep the external wear and dings at bay.

    The single 1-inch 5-shot group that I ever shot from the bench rest at 100 yards with an open sighted center fire rifle was with this rifle. It must have been a fluke because it has only happened once but the rifle is good for 1 1/4-inch 5-shot groups with good hand loads and when the shooter is in the right mood. I've always been a mediocre high-power competitor with my best score being 454/500. I did once use this rifle to shoot 92% on prone slow-fire at 600 yards on a windy day at Camp Bullis in San Antonio. A Sierra 180 grain Matchking and IMR 4895 powder was used on this occasion.

    Since I have moved a couple of years ago I can't easily attend the old CTRP high-power match as I once did so haven't made very many lately. Maybe next season. It appears that high-power shooting as I know it is fading from popularity to a great extent. Maybe I'm just out of touch.

    I know I'm out of style as I don't want to go the route of the AR 15 which is now king of the firing line. I can't quite accept that .223/5.56 is a real high-power cartridge and really can't gen up much enthusiasm for using it in high-power competition. I always thought the belt and the blare of the .30 was part of the fun.

    The M1 is the rifle I will keep above all others. It feels familiar and I've come to trust it for its dependability. I have spare parts for any future maintenance needs. The potent .30-06 offers performance for any reasonable requirement and is still one of the easiest to hand load. I have supplies of ammunition and components to keep a .30-06 running longer than I will have need of one.

    I like that old WWII poster with the slogan "The M1 does my talkin' "



    It's wearing a coating of RIG on its metal surfaces in these photos.










  12. #12
    Member Array puffer's Avatar
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    1st of all, I would check out these sites to answer you ??
    Note both the chamber wear & muzzle wear is important.
    Also be very careful about what "grade" you buy from CMP
    http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/
    M-14 Firing Line Public Forum - Powered by vBulletin

    IMHO, the M-I Garand is one of the FINEST platforms out there.
    I was issued one when I entered the service. When I joined the 101st ABN, I was issued another. A few months later,the 101st was re equipped with M-14s. What surprised me, although the M-14 still used the Garand platform, it NEVER handled as well ( balance,accuracy etc.)

    A few years after I became a civilian, I purchased a M-I from DCM ( mid 60s) A friend of mine went there & had them assemble one for me, to match as close as poss. the one I had in the 101st.
    1. Receiver etc = Springfield ( 1944)
    2. Bbl. = 1953 ( re barreled but never issued.)
    3. Stock = ca 1953 (re stocked)

    Here is a picture of it & the 2 other Garand platforms I have ( top down = M-I,M-14 & Socom16

    Have I ever had a "problem with a M-I" ( besides learning the HARD WAY about the M-I Thumb) ?? Only 1. I was doing a "rapid fire" exercise ( Mil) I had gone through several clips, when my gun went FULL AUTO. "BLAT" The "fore stock" was actually smoking & I "WET my pants" It seems the sear broke.
    Attached Images

  13. #13
    Member Array puffer's Avatar
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    IMPORTANT = AMMO
    I forgot to mention that although many "think" that the M-I is a 30-06
    IT IS NOT.
    Using "civilian 06" ammo will cause problems. WHY ??
    1. HEAD space is different. ( go-no go )
    2. Powder load is different.
    Most people I know "reload" to MIL SPECs.

    Note, this is the same for any "Mil Spec" Garand platform. ( 7.62 NATO IS NOT .308 civilian ammo.)

    Puffer

  14. #14
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    Hmmm... I don't know about the M1 "not being a .30-06."

    Any sound M1 will give perfect function with normal factory .30-06 ammunition with bullet weights in the 150 grain to 180 grain range. Such factory loads cause no problems at all and the empty cases are easily handloaded with a long useful life. It is probably best to avoid shooting an M1 with the so called "light magnum" ammunition that some factories produce for the .30-06. M1s will likely feed and function with 125 grain factory loads though I've not tried any. I have a 125 grain spitzer handload that is great in my M1.

    I've owned a couple more M1s in addition to my old favorite and all worked well with hand loads assembled in both military and commercial cartridge cases using standard .30-06 dies set to craft ammunition to factory equivalent .30-06 spec's. The use of small base dies is unnecessary.

    As an experiment I once handloaded the same batch of cases over and over, using them in competition through most of two high-power seasons. They were reloaded 16 times with a single trimming, using plain ol' RCBS .30-06 dies. No case ever exhibited a crack or a sign of a failure. I finally tossed them because they had chewed and ugly rims with illegible head stamps, though even that didn't prevent positive extraction. If either the rifle's chamber or the rifle's head space was enough different than dimensions of those resized cases then it is certain that the brass would have become overworked in so many resizings and would have failed.

    When using factory ammunition, neither the military or commercial .30-06 cases exhibit any strange out-of-spec measurements after being fired in any M1 chamber I've ever observed nor do primers exhibit signs of high pressures.

    There's no special "black art" to "reloading to MIL SPECS." The M1 rifle likes rifle powders in the medium burning range and prefers medium weight .30 bullets. Using the IMR line of powders as an example of reference, the M1 functions well with propellants from IMR 3031 to IMR 4320 or other powder brands with similar burning rates. Within this range the M1 is quite flexible as to charge weights and functions well with mild to maximum charge weights. It is said that powders from IMR 4350 or slower, along with other manufacturers' powders with similar slow burning rates, aren't appropriate in the M1 because they raise operating pressures excessively at the gas port. I do know of an individual who has used IMR 4831 in his M1 for years with no obvious signs of battering or wear. Perhaps he is fortunate to have avoided damage. I've not experimented with slow powders.

    After 22 years of averaging a minimum of 700 rounds per season in competition, additional practice, additional load development and range time, and endless fun plinking sessions, my M1 has probably fired 15,000 rounds, all of which was .30-06 ammunition.

    When discussing the M1 using the .30-06 cartridge; if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Not all 30-06 ammo is safe for the operating rod in the Garand. The real issue is not the weight of the bullet per se, but the pressure when it is tapped at the gas port to run the op rod. If it is too high, it can bend the op rod. There are loads specifically for the M1, or you can get an inexpensive adjustable gas plug ($35) that vents off the excess pressure and you can run whatever 30-06 ammo you want.

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