A question for you AR-15 fanatics.

A question for you AR-15 fanatics.

This is a discussion on A question for you AR-15 fanatics. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've been seeing AR's in just about every caliber I can think of. Heck I've even seen a .410 AR online. I've seen they come ...

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Thread: A question for you AR-15 fanatics.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    A question for you AR-15 fanatics.

    I've been seeing AR's in just about every caliber I can think of. Heck I've even seen a .410 AR online. I've seen they come in a large number of handgun calibers as well, with one GLARING exception...

    .357 magnum

    Magnum Research makes the famous Desert Eagle in .357 mag so I know that a semi-auto configuration is plausible. The round itself is no longer or wider than many of the rifle rounds common to the AR, so it should be possible to design a bolt and barrel to handle it.

    So can someone tell me why I can find no mention anywhere on the internet of a .357 mag AR, one of the most popular calibers on the market? And ballisticily a nearly perfect SD round to boot?

    The semi-auto would doubtless lose the .357/.38sp compatibility enjoyed by .357 mag revolvers, but that would be a small price to pay.


  2. #2
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    It has a rimmed cartridge,which would require at the least a redesign of the extractor and mag follower.Rimmed cases dont take to "stacking" in a magazine very well. Too many issues.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Phooey! If they can make a .410 shotty, they can make a .357.

  4. #4
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    Good point.

    Perhaps with all the other cartridge combinations there just isn't enough demand to figure out all of the issues and build one.

    Think about it. I'm not aware of a .357,.45Colt or .44Mag or any other rimmed cases other than the .410.

    A .44 Mag might be a sweet little deer rifle.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #5
    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    The 7.62x54R feeds pretty well from a magazine too - if you load it right. I think it's a valid question. It most likely boils down to demand. I think the .410 conversions were born of 2 factors:

    1) The lack of availability of 5.56 rifle components post election (hence the "skyrocketing" availability and price of the 5.7x28 uppers)
    2) Perceived competition with the Saigas chambered in .410

    I've really not heard or read anything regarding the reliability of the .410 uppers (or mags for that matter) to determine if it is a potentially viable modification or just a gimmick.
    Last edited by LMarshall73; February 2nd, 2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #6
    BAC
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    There is basically zero market for a .357 Magnum AR-15.


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    What BAC said. If I'm getting a long gun in a revolver caliber it's going to be a levergun. With that said I'd love to see a Judge in 5.56x45...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    There is basically zero market for a .357 Magnum AR-15.


    -B
    How's that for zero, bub?

    I think it would be a nearly ideal SHTF combat carbine.
    1. readily available ammo.
    2. relatively affordable ammo.
    3. nearly ideal stopping power out to around 200 yards.

    But you do have a point if I take into account that 10mm makes a pretty good substitute and 10mm ar-15s already exist.
    The downside is I don't think I've ever seen 10mm on the shelf, so availabilty and price of ammo may be an issue there.

  9. #9
    BAC
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    1) Readily available ammo that would require significant modification to the system to run.

    2) Relatively affordable ammo that's still more expensive than currently available pistol calibers targeted for the AR15 (9mm, .40 S&W, etc.).

    3) No greater performance than currently available calibers meant for performance. Bear in mind pistol caliber ARs weren't designed for "performance" as much as they were cheaper training and ammo consolidation. I'd bet we also have different definitions of "ideal" terminal performance.


    To the best of my knowledge there is exactly one manufacturer of 10mm AR15 uppers and they are one of the least reputable companies in the business of making these rifles. Their pistol-caliber rifles have been especially problematic; nobody's really got it down, which is why there's still a market for reliable pistol-caliber ARs. The Turkish .410-chambered weapon brought up earlier isn't simply a shotgun cartridge AR15; it took more than a bolt and barrel swap and a new magazine to make that gun work.

    I get that you think it's a cool idea. I think it would be pretty neat too. But what I said stands: there's no market for such a rifle. Better calibers exist for taking game and cheaper calibers exist for plinking, which should be more trouble-free once that 9mm AR feature at SHOT 2010 hit the shelves. From a tinkerer's perspective, I would love to see it done and have a shot at trying to do it myself. From a business perspective, there's no money in it.


    -B
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  10. #10
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    With that said I'd love to see a Judge in 5.56x45...
    Very cool idea. The 5.56x45 is narrower than most pistol rounds, so the potential is there for more ammo. I'd be more worried about the horrendous bark outta that bad boy. How high-pressure do hotter revolver loads get?

    Unintentional, but now you have me thinking about .223 wildcats that'll eat into powder space and be better for use out of shorter barrels. Like a 5.56 case necked up to a .284 to .308 bullets, a target speed of 1000-1200 fps, and a revolver with seven of these on tap.


    -B
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    1) Readily available ammo that would require significant modification to the system to run.

    2) Relatively affordable ammo that's still more expensive than currently available pistol calibers targeted for the AR15 (9mm, .40 S&W, etc.).

    3) No greater performance than currently available calibers meant for performance. Bear in mind pistol caliber ARs weren't designed for "performance" as much as they were cheaper training and ammo consolidation. I'd bet we also have different definitions of "ideal" terminal performance.


    To the best of my knowledge there is exactly one manufacturer of 10mm AR15 uppers and they are one of the least reputable companies in the business of making these rifles. Their pistol-caliber rifles have been especially problematic; nobody's really got it down, which is why there's still a market for reliable pistol-caliber ARs. The Turkish .410-chambered weapon brought up earlier isn't simply a shotgun cartridge AR15; it took more than a bolt and barrel swap and a new magazine to make that gun work.

    I get that you think it's a cool idea. I think it would be pretty neat too. But what I said stands: there's no market for such a rifle. Better calibers exist for taking game and cheaper calibers exist for plinking, which should be more trouble-free once that 9mm AR feature at SHOT 2010 hit the shelves. From a tinkerer's perspective, I would love to see it done and have a shot at trying to do it myself. From a business perspective, there's no money in it.


    -B
    See, this is why it's good to have guys like you around on a forum like this.

    I'll probably stay on the fence for awhile longer. I wasn't aware of the problems pistol caliber AR's have, but it makes sense. The AR was originally designed as a rifle. Specifically the 5.56 NATO.
    It's a little like hooking an IPOD up to my car stereo via cassette adapter. It'll work, but there's still a number of issues.
    The .357 mag AR seemed, at least in my mind, like a very very good "do-it-all" rifle. Hunting, self-defense in a caliber I can afford to practice with once in a while, on a platform I'm already familiar with thanks to 2 years in the Army way back when.

    As far as "ideal" or nearly-so stopping power, I simply mean as compared to other pistol calibers. I'm also "guestimating" the effective range for a .357 from a rifle barrel.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    It is possible but there may not be enough of a market. Plus you would be limited on what sort of ammo you could shoot...why?.... Well magnum research makes their pistol in .357 but its picky on what ammo will cycle the slide. .38 special will not work nor will light .357 or non jacketed loads.

    you can get lever action rifles in .357 and they work very very well and reliable due to the tube magazine and mechanical action. keep in mind the .357 cartridge was never really ment for semi automatic firearms... thats why .357 sig was born.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    For that matter, they could dump the .357 idea and chamber one in .38 super, or its rimless equivalent the 9x23 winchester.....
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