Pistol Caliber Carbine

[Stevew]

Ruger made a couple of semi-auto .44 mag carbines...(one was called the Deerfield, iirc)...but they were also quite low (4-5 round) capacity.

I use to have one of Ruger semi auto 44 mags. I loved it. I have heard some bad reviews about them getting dirty fast and jamming. I never had any problems. I wish they still made it. I don't think they are even making the lever action in 44 mag this year.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Hamour]

My experiences with carbines in revolver calibers:

1- Velocity increase with the .357 and 44 Marlins puts the normal 158gr and 240 gr bullets right at 1750fps.

2- Large cavity hollowpoints expand violently at these speeds. The Remington 158gr .357 hollowpoints and Remington 240 gr .44 hollowpoints give me less penetration when fired from a rifle because of this.

3- Leathality is enhanced tremendously with the extra velocity and expansion, penetration is sacrificed.

4-OAL of the carbine aimed is the same as when the revolver is aimed with arms extended. Aim an empty carbine at a wall and ease up to it until the bbl touches, then do the same thing with a revolver. Distance from the wall will be almost identical.

5- The carbine and revolver firing the same ammo made sense 100 years ago and makes sense now.

[Siafu]

My experiences with carbines in revolver calibers:

1- Velocity increase with the .357 and 44 Marlins puts the normal 158gr and 240 gr bullets right at 1750fps.

2- Large cavity hollowpoints expand violently at these speeds. The Remington 158gr .357 hollowpoints and Remington 240 gr .44 hollowpoints give me less penetration when fired from a rifle because of this.

3- Leathality is enhanced tremendously with the extra velocity and expansion, penetration is sacrificed.

4-OAL of the carbine aimed is the same as when the revolver is aimed with arms extended. Aim an empty carbine at a wall and ease up to it until the bbl touches, then do the same thing with a revolver. Distance from the wall will be almost identical.

5- The carbine and revolver firing the same ammo made sense 100 years ago and makes sense now.

Interesting contribution and perspective. Thanks.

[Gideon]

I wanted a pistol caliber carbine to cover my two main calibers; 9mm and .38/.357. For the .38/.357 I got a Marlin 1894C model lever action. Has good capacity, no recoil to speak of, decent accuracy, 18.5" barrel so very handy, can shoot either round and if pressed, could use it for hunting (Coyotes, jack rabbits, and even Whitetail deer at very short ranges).

For 9mm, I'd love to have either the Berretta Storm CX4 in 9mm. Fast, light accurate, large capacity mags available, a good gun. An AR in 9mm is the other option and would be a great gun. Those are the two serious 9mm carbine choices I'd consider.

For less than serious cheap fun with 9mm the Hi-Point 995TS is a very cheap but surprisingly reliable 9mm and the Keltec is a step up from that in quality but almost impossible to find at present.

I like it becasue I can stock up on ammo and shoot them either way and you do get a lot more ballistics out of the same round when you give it some barrel and it's a lot easier to aim it better.....at least for me it is

Gideon

[gglockster]

Traditional rifles (prior to the SG-44) tend to be too much bullet/gun for closed in spaces. Pistols on the other hand tend to fall off in effectiveness rapidly by 50 yards. Recoil management and muzzle flash tend to be superior in pistol caliber carbines. IMHO a 10MM carbine is just about perfect for self defense between 5 yards and 150 yards, and I just can't see calling it self defense at 150 yards.

[Shadowsbane]

While it doesn't matter as much for home defense, but pistol caliber carbines really drop off their velocity fast after 75/100 meters. With hand loaded revolver rounds you may be able to push that some, but not too much.

They fill a nice niche, but much like shotguns outside of that niche their cons become more noticable. So as long as you understand their limitations and plan accordingly they will do well. (Good advice for any firearm really)

Personally I will probably pick up a Sub2000 eventually for it's compactness, and low recoil.

[pirate]

I've been waiting for my FFL to get a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 that uses Glock 19 mags for over a year now. They are a great little PCC and that would give me an immediate justification to buy a G19 too. it will be like killing two birds with one stone.

CDNN has them now for $299 in their latest flyer. I would jump on that now!

I too love the PCC's.....cheap to feed, fun to shoot, and thats what its all about.

[pirate]

My experiences with carbines in revolver calibers:

1- Velocity increase with the .357 and 44 Marlins puts the normal 158gr and 240 gr bullets right at 1750fps.

2- Large cavity hollowpoints expand violently at these speeds. The Remington 158gr .357 hollowpoints and Remington 240 gr .44 hollowpoints give me less penetration when fired from a rifle because of this.

3- Leathality is enhanced tremendously with the extra velocity and expansion, penetration is sacrificed.

4-OAL of the carbine aimed is the same as when the revolver is aimed with arms extended. Aim an empty carbine at a wall and ease up to it until the bbl touches, then do the same thing with a revolver. Distance from the wall will be almost identical.

5- The carbine and revolver firing the same ammo made sense 100 years ago and makes sense now.

I think I agree with your entire statement! Some would be surprised what a 9mm out of a 16" barrel is a capable of. Hitting a man size target well past 100 yards is easy with any of the 3 carbines I own.

9mm ammo fired from a 16" barrel carbine
Ammunition Bullet Weight Velocity fps
Cor-Bon DPX 115 1330
Cor-Bon PB 100 1692
Cor-Bon HP 115 1532
GECO FMJ 124 1306
Buffalo Bore HP 124 1458
Buffalo Bore HP 147 1225
Federal HS 147 1155

[10thmtn]

Some good comments here. I'm also thinking of a Sub 2000 that will take G19 mags - thanks for the head's up!

You do need to be careful with ammo selection. As noted, JHPs can "blow up" when driven at velocities achieved with carbine barrels, resulting in shallow penetration.

One option is Federal's EFMJ - if you can find any.

I would also prefer a shotgun for home defense - but for those who are recoil sensitive, a PCC is a good option.

[nedrgr21]

Seems like you get the cons of both rifle and pistol in one package - not as much energy, number of rounds, or accuracy of a rifle (thinking AR carbine with collapsible stock which is the same length as a pistol carbine), not as handy as a pistol, weighs as much as a rifle, LR trajectory will still suck even with an extra 2-300 fps muzzle velocity, lose hydrostatic shock effect of rifle (even with the fastest pistol rounds).

[Hamour]

The advantage of a carbine in self defense or varmit control in a rural setting is the increased killing power out to 100 yds or so. And the ability to more easily hit what you are aiming at. And the ability to have the same ammo for two different arms. One breaks and the other is ready to go.

All of these advantages were thought out on the western frontier years ago!

One thing to remember, these weapons are going to kill with momentum and large primary wound channels, not hydrostatic shock. They are not 257 WM's in a small package.

My personal favorite carbine and load is a 44 mag Ruger or Marlin with Remington 240 gr hpts. I have recovered several bullets from deer shot through the lungs, all have been 70 caliber or greater. The rapid expansion limits penetration and enhances killing power, just what you want around the house.

M1 Carbines and 223 CAR 15's can interchange utility with these pistol caliber carbines but you must maintain a bedside stock of different ammol.

I am comfortable with either.

[Janq]

Hamour FTW.

I too am a fan of the Marlin 1894 carbine as in .38/.357 Mag.
As well I'm with Siafu, and the FBI. If able to afford the ride, SBRd PCC FTW.

- Janq

[AutoFan]

Does anyone make a PCC that uses Sig mags?

This would be primarily for fun, I have other guns for HD.

[SIXTO]

Does anyone make a PCC that uses Sig mags?

This would be primarily for fun, I have other guns for HD.

No, I wish there was though. I'd love to have a PC9 that took Sig mags.

[isme]

I use a Win. 92 .44 mag. trapper . The 16 inch barrel keeps the length to a minimum in a house or out of a vehicle. The extra length increases my velocity and improves my accuracy. If everything else fails it would make a good club.. The main thing is I just enjoy shooting it and I am very comfortable with it.