Pistol Caliber Carbine

[jwalker497]

Have a few questions about pistol carbines, which I never really gave much consideration to before. Other than having some versatility with pistol ammo, what are their strengths??

What does the added carbine length do in terms of velocity and power for pistol rounds, like the 40sw? Does it reach rifle power??

Would a carbine be a good option for home defense??

Why would someone choose a pistol claiber carbine over a rifle for Home defense??

What are the pros and cons of carbines?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Charlie8D]

I can only give a partial answer to those questions, because of lack of some experience.

I remember reading that there was a gain in muzzle velocity with a carbine, but still in the 1200-1300fps range. NOT like most high powered rifles.
Some of the models share the same mags that a pistol would use. That would be a plus.
Close range, home defense , they would be deadly. I have used the Army " greasegun ."
Home defense- My OPINION,,, hard to beat a short shotgun.

[TheFreeman]

I had a PX4 Storm in 9mm. It was highly accurate at short range and very easy to shoot and control. Shared mags with its pistol counterpart, which I never owned though. There are two different versions of mags though.

I didn't care for some of the plastic internals on that gun.

However you could also adjust the gun for a left hand shooter as well in just a couple of steps.

I never really tried to see how far out I could be accurate with it. However, anything within 25 yards was easy all day long. Even moving targets. No barrel rise either.

[Siafu]

I happen to be a big fan of PCC's. I have an AR in 9mm and it is a great rifle. Lots of fun to shoot, very mild to non-existent recoil, low noise and costs about 75% less to feed than its rifle caliber counterpart. 100 yard targeting is very good. Lots of drop out past 100 yards. There are many who like to poop on the PCC but the FBI likes them enough to order them for their field agents. The FBI type use a purpose built lower (no mag well adapter) but mine uses a standard AR lower with a Spikes Tactical mag well adapter and it is 100% GTG. It is my favorite indoor range rifle. I did not build it as a HD rifle but I am sure it would be fine for that application. I tend to agree with this statement:

,,, hard to beat a shotgun. (for QC home defense)

[Rigrat]

Siafu,

That is a very nice setup you have there.

[Siafu]

Siafu,

That is a very nice setup you have there.

Thanks dude. It runs as good as it looks.

Get one here:

www.spikestactical.com

[cmb]

I too have considered a setup which utilizes the same mags and calibers, primarily out of utility use. I have shot the Kt sub 2000 using the glock mags and at the range I was shooting 10, 15, 25yds it was a good weapon, alot of rounds in a very tight group at a very fast pace. I am intersted in acquiring one on a 1911 platform (mech tech makes a conversion I have read about) or one that runs on a glock platform, course I will need to get a glock and a carbine (shucks!). I think it is a good concept cause you can essentially carry 2 guns and the same mags and have a shoulder weapon.

All things considered, expecting a fight, I'd rather have the true rifle ballistics... but for disaster prep (grab and go) or home defense and plinking, the PCC's are attractive to me...

BTW the KT folds in half and fits in a briefcase or gun case around 18" long! One could have a case of KT SUB, Glock Pistol, 2 standard Pistol mags, and 6-33 round Glock mags at your finger tips... not bad in a pinch.

[Siafu]

I too have considered a setup which utilizes the same mags and calibers, primarily out of utility use. I have shot the Kt sub 2000 using the glock mags and at the range I was shooting 10, 15, 25yds it was a good weapon, alot of rounds in a very tight group at a very fast pace. I am intersted in acquiring one on a 1911 platform (mech tech makes a conversion I have read about) or one that runs on a glock platform, course I will need to get a glock and a carbine (shucks!). I think it is a good concept cause you can essentially carry 2 guns and the same mags and have a shoulder weapon.

All things considered, expecting a fight, I'd rather have the true rifle ballistics... but for disaster prep (grab and go) or home defense and plinking, the PCC's are attractive to me...

I've been waiting for my FFL to get a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 that uses Glock 19 mags for over a year now. They are a great little PCC and that would give me an immediate justification to buy a G19 too. it will be like killing two birds with one stone.

[paul45]

I have chosen marlin .44mag level action carbine for it's power, easy of use, range and non-black appearance. I also have one in .357 and a oly arms 9mm with glock mags.

[GoGators10]

I love my Beretta CX4. Just need to find a sight for it.

[Stevew]

When you use revolver ammo, such 357/44mag, in a carbine you see a bigger jump in velocity than with auto ammo, such 9mm/40S&W.

[cvhoss]

What does the added carbine length do in terms of velocity and power for pistol rounds, like the 40sw? Does it reach rifle power??

No. If you'll check Ballistics By The Inch, you'll see that a carbine length barrel adds 200-300 fps over a 4" barrel resulting in muzzle energy around 675 ft. lbs. (for a 165 gr. bullet). Almost any 55 gr. .223 round will make 3200+fps yielding over 1200 ft. lbs. of energy.

Would a carbine be a good option for home defense??

This is really subjective and susceptible to personal preferrence, but these are my thoughts. If you want the power of a pistol cartridge for home defense, why not use a pistol. Much easier to move through the house with a pistol than with a long arm. The only possible advantage I can see would be a more accurate aiming platform. Personally, when I hear something go bump in the night, I'm grabbing the 12 ga.

Why would someone choose a pistol claiber carbine over a rifle for Home defense??

Honestly, I wouldn't. Some may choose a carbine that uses the same magazines as their pistol so that in the event of a malfunction, they still have ammo for the other firearm. As I said earlier, it does provide a more stable aiming platform. Depending on the manufacturer of the carbine, it may have a higher round count than a pistol of the same caliber.

What are the pros and cons of carbines?

Pros:

• Possible higher round count.
• Better aiming platform.
• Less susceptible to malfunction from poor form (limp wristing).
• As a dedicated HD firearm, it could be outfitted with more tacti-cool goodies such flashlight, laser, red dot, etc.
• More energy than a pistol of the same caliber.

Cons:

• Doesn't have the energy of a true rifle caliber or a shotgun.
• Longer than a pistol so more difficult to move through the house with.
• Longer length provides more leverage for it to be wrestled away from you.
• Depending on who you believe, may be more likely to penetrate walls than a true rifle cartridge.

Don't get me wrong. Pistol caliber carbines can be a lot of fun to shoot. Heck, I even have one or two. I just can't see them replacing my HD rifle or shotgun.

Hoss

[Stevew]

The 44 mag from a carbine beats the 223 for energy.
The 357 from a carbine is about equal to the 223 for energy.

[cvhoss]

The 44 mag from a carbine beats the 223 for energy.
The 357 from a carbine is about equal to the 223 for energy.

Agreed, 100%. However, since the OP mentioned 40 S&W I assumed he was talking primarily about semi-auto carbines such as the CX4 Storm or an AR platform. Semi-auto would limit choices to 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP. As far as I know, the only carbines in 357 or 44Mag would be lever action carbines. If he's open to a lever gun, then that's a whole new subject on the power question.

Hoss

[Cuda66]

Agreed, 100%. However, since the OP mentioned 40 S&W I assumed he was talking primarily about semi-auto carbines such as the CX4 Storm or an AR platform. Semi-auto would limit choices to 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP. As far as I know, the only carbines in 357 or 44Mag would be lever action carbines. If he's open to a lever gun, then that's a whole new subject on the power question.

Hoss

Ruger made a couple of semi-auto .44 mag carbines...(one was called the Deerfield, iirc)...but they were also quite low (4-5 round) capacity.