Keeping it too simple?

This is a discussion on Keeping it too simple? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Simple...simple...simple. Simple works under stress. 4+1 is enough for 99.9% of your HD situations. Trust me, no BG is going to want to see the ...

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Thread: Keeping it too simple?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Simple...simple...simple. Simple works under stress. 4+1 is enough for 99.9% of your HD situations. Trust me, no BG is going to want to see the angry end of that 870.

    I brought my 870 HD home from the store, loaded it with 00 Buck, and put it where it's accessible to me and my wife but not the kids. Done and done.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    I would highly suggest a light, and eventually a good class on how to use it most effectively.

    It is more important to hit the right target than to hit any target.

    And yes birdshot more often than not offers devastating superficial damage, and pretty scars. Not exactly what people generally have in mind when they think defensive loadings.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    And yes birdshot more often than not offers devastating superficial damage, and pretty scars. Not exactly what people generally have in mind when they think defensive loadings.
    Completely agree. Go with #1 buck if you're serious about stopping power. If you're comfortable with something that'll really put the sting on someone but probably won't cause much real damage, use the birdshot.

  5. #19
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammo girl View Post
    Who could argue with a simple light (they are rather spendy though), and a way to keep some extra ammo on the stock?

    It's fun to go and see the shot patterns with different types of ammunition, then make your decision on that.
    here is a very reasonably (imho) priced unit. Works very well on my 870Police model.

    Shot Gun Weapon Light System - LumaForce 300 Lumen Flashlight + Mount

    And talk about fun, this absurdly priced stuff makes pumpkin mush like you get in a can for pies. (But at that price, I was able to shoot only 3, and saved 6 for HD).

    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...pecialtyexotic
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  6. #20
    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. That looks like a quality light at a reasonable price. Ammo however I'll pass on. If someone is dumb enough to come in uninvited, they're getting the 00 buck with no regrets. I don't want too many do dads and gizmos..it's also got a 28" barrel that she gets to the range every now and again for some trap. Serving dual purpose until I get more money to afford another shottie. NYS is currently taking my wallet for a ride for my pistol permit..plus saving to pick one up when/if I get approved. Thanks for the info..more suggestions welcome. Any thoughts on the mountable side saddles? I heard the 6 gets in the way on an 870.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    I was always a fan of the leather side saddles that fit on the stock personally.

    The nylon ones always slip for me, but the leather ones just hold better.

    Might also be because I am a lefty so the reciever mounted options don't generally work.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Go with a 4 count on the side saddle. I personally like them becsue with some practice you can get them and load them in the chamber without dismounting the gun. I personally would go for that.
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    I have the same gun. 18inch 870 4+1. I thought it would be just right. I keep 3 00 and the last is a Centurion (sp) round in the tube. The Centurion shell has a .650 ball in the center with 6 #1 shot behind it. Then I have slugs on the stock. I have a bandolier that hangs next to it that has 20 00 buck shells and 4 of those Centurion shells.

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    Sounds like my set up at home. I have a 20" 870 Wingmaster rifle sights and no mag extension. The 4 rounds of 00 Buckshot Low Recoil in the mag is plenty considering its backups (a selection of revolvers, pistols, Beretta CX4 Storm carbine, and an AR-15).

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    I appreciate the opinion that buckshot is a great defense tool....but some of you need to do some research on #4 or #6 BIRDSHOT in a home defense distance out of a full chose at 10 yds. In fact, how about you take you shotgun to the range and pattern a few rounds....or shoot a few watermelons, or gallon jugs...
    superficial wounds...and scars are not an educated answer.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Here is a link that shows ballistic gelatin being shot with a 12 gauge 7.5 shotshell, from a 24 inch barrel.


    As you can see it drastically misses the mark for what is the reccomended penetration of ballistic gelatin, despite being fired from a barrel that is roughly 6" larger than the standard defensive shotgun barrel.

    Gelatin, while mimicing flesh and muscle tissue quite well, doesn't mimic bone stucture, as well as any amount of clothing that an attacker is likely to wear.

    The problem with birdshot is down to simple physics regardless of the choke size. Several pellets very close together are still several individual pellets, Not a solid mass. Which means any amount of force that they are going to transfer to a body is going to be on a per pellet basis.

    CAN it kill an attacker? Yes, any firearm can kill, but the question is what is the most likely and reliable outcome? A CNS inflicting hit with birdshot? or just some wounding lacking any real incapacitation. Perhaps my origional answer was a bit melodramatic, but that doesn't change the physics of the equation.


    Here is a posted example from the box of truth when they did the birdshot rounds testing

    When To Use Birdshot
    A friend of AR15.com sends this:

    "I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

    It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I have almost the same setup - Rem 870 Express, 4+1 (but I don't keep one in the chamber), with a 20" barrel. I added a nylon side saddle on the butt with 6 extra shells. I have it loaded with #1 BUCKshot.

    When I go trap shooting, I put the original 28" barrel back on.

    Works for me!
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  14. #28
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    The mag tube extensions vary in quality. If you get a good one with a bracket on the front and made of metal they are very sturdy. I would take a look at a surefire light or other well known setup that is integrated into the forend
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  15. #29
    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    I shot the gun w/bird, and 00 buck, at a fixed target, at reasonably close range. Pattern on 00 wins, hands down. Larger holes, more penetrating power, better grouping.

    As an aside, any of you that have 870's that took them to clays have any problems? I was shooting winchester super x's for trap. 2 of them stovepiped and refused to eject. A guy at the range suggested the cheaper primer without a lot of brass was the problem. Any of you concur? Maybe some winchester aa's for trap instead w/better brass? None of the remington 00 buck had ejection problems at the range, nor the remington #4 bird i put through the gun.

  16. #30
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    Did you change barrels?
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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