Levergun question: I searched - Page 4

Levergun question: I searched

This is a discussion on Levergun question: I searched within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by razor02097 where do you get ballistic charting programs? What I prepared in the post above was done with RCBS DOT Load . ...

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Thread: Levergun question: I searched

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    where do you get ballistic charting programs?
    What I prepared in the post above was done with RCBS DOT Load. I also have the Lee Shooter's Program. And here's a simple one you can use for free. I don't like some of the online ones that only are set up for only a specific manufacturer's bullets.

    Hoss
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    I use this a lot:
    JBM - Calculations

    As for the original question, I remember seeing some slow motion videos of a lever action tube magazine exploding, and of a 12ga shotgun with a 20ga shell obstructing the bore exploding. This video is the same, but of an overcharged revolver exploding. I just can't seem to find the other two.
    YouTube - Gun explodes in slomo
    One thing a lever gun shooter needs to remember is that 99% of the time, there hand is right under all of that ammo in the magazine. I was on the range and heard and saw the results of a Marlin 45/70 blowing up because of a barrel obstruction (squib load) and all I can say is that the shooter was very fortunate that it was a long range match and he was shooting off of cross sticks. The entire magazine tube and forearm was obliterated. If his hand had been there, his new shooting alias would be stubby. Regardless of whether you can find documented evidence of a pointed bullet causing an explosion or not, is it really worth the risk?

    Hoss
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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    ...Regardless of whether you can find documented evidence of a pointed bullet causing an explosion or not, is it really worth the risk?
    To that end though same can be said for any firearm with any type of magazine be it internal, external and box type or even a revolver.


    Source - Gobango - Handgun Kabooms


    Source - Glock Talk - View Single Post - Crazy looking wheelgun


    Source - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ld-xdm-kaboom/


    Source - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-ar-15-kaboom/

    Two and a half interesting reads on the subject of tubular magazine kabooms can be found here:

    * how flat is flat-nose for tube mag? - Cast Boolits
    * http://www.retro.co.za/gundex/articl...re%20Safe.html
    * http://www.levergunscommunity.com/vi...hp?f=1&t=24738 [Half]

    - Janq
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  4. #49
    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    So, are you guys saying that the LEVERevolution ammunition is potentially unsafe? (per the OP's original question)

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Nope, the total opposite is what's been said Surveyor.

    BTW Hornady sells the XTP projectile (in some cases the exact same projectile) which all come with a BC increasing polymer tip as among their revolver cartridges and in their .50 cal muzzleloader SST and XTP (sabot) projectiles too.


    Source - http://blackpowderbullets.com/hornad...llets%202.html

    Again the polymer tip toward tube magazine safety is a secondary benefit well played per their marketing dept and ad copy people.
    Primary benefit is in reduced aerodynamic drag.

    It's even been applied to their box magazine pistol projectiles no sold under their 'Critical Defense' line.
    Marketing. It's what you think.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  6. #51
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    To that end though same can be said for any firearm with any type of magazine be it internal, external and box type or even a revolver......................- Janq
    Not really. No other type of firearm puts the bullets in the magazine nose-to-tail. While blow-ups can occur in any type of firearm and cause injury, I've never heard of of any problem with ammo being ignited in any other type of magazine/cylinder unless there was an initial overcharge/obstruction explosion. And while I've seen revolvers where ammo in adjoining cylinders had detonated from an explosion of the firing chamber, in the four blown up semi-autos I've examined, in all cases the magazine was ejected out the bottom of the grip with no damage to the rounds in the magazine. Only in the tubular magazine is there even any discussion of one round potentially setting off another round simply from recoil.

    Hoss
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  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    This is starting to sound like something Mythbusters should test

    On a serious note... since I have bought myself a new marlin lever gun would it be ok to shoot out 44 mag hollowpoints or not?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Hoss,

    I posted two examples showing box magazine fed guns in specific where they most definitely did not blow out through the bottom being harmless to the handler.
    There are many more of same very easy to locate in basically no time at all.
    Not so much though for magazine tube instances of same.

    Agreed regarding alignment of the rounds...But my point was and is that as related to ammunition failures and potential injury abounds with handling guns. Even breech loaded break action guns.
    People run reloaded ammo and commercially reloaded ammo daily, and weekly there is some one somewhere that suffers a kaboom. Same for commercial ammo too due to overpressures and underpressures resulting in squib loads. Monthly if not weekly.
    Meanwhile with tube magazine fed arms in specific it's like finding a needle in a haystack hard to locate more than one incident never mind three, ten or twenty as relative to all other type of firearms.

    The concern for risk is exceedingly low, IF the handler has a properly functioning and maintained firearm and the ammo is properly loaded within the tubular magazine (see the first link I'd provided).

    Shotgun blown up
    YouTube - shotgun blown up

    Don't get me wrong as I'm not saying do not use Lever Revolution ammo or that the polymer tip is bogus toward that specific view of use/application.
    I am though saying that as against the balance of shooters and instances of tube magazine guns shot using conventional projectiles that have not gone kaboom as against the very small number that have as just within the time that the LeverRevolution commercial round (and XTP projectile for reloaders) has been available...It's not logical to say that there is enough risk that is greater to such a degree to be remarkable.
    I'd feel different if the real world result had been akin to that of say the number of Glocks or [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpIARs that have gone kaboom[/url] even as the mechanical reason for those incident are of course completely different.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    Only in the tubular magazine is there even any discussion of one round potentially setting off another round simply from recoil.

    Hoss
    True.

    I don't personally know any experienced lever-men that use "pointy" bullets.
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  10. #55
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Funny you should say so........

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    This is starting to sound like something Mythbusters should test

    On a serious note... since I have bought myself a new marlin lever gun would it be ok to shoot out 44 mag hollowpoints or not?
    last night as I was watching M/B on the moon landing, I was thinking the same thing!
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    This is starting to sound like something Mythbusters should test

    On a serious note... since I have bought myself a new marlin lever gun would it be ok to shoot out 44 mag hollowpoints or not?
    Should not be any problem. I can't think of any 44 mag hollow point that doesn't have a nose wider than a large primer pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Hoss,

    (1)I posted two examples showing box magazine fed guns in specific where they most definitely did not blow out through the bottom being harmless to the handler.
    There are many more of same very easy to locate in basically no time at all.

    Not so much though for magazine tube instances of same.

    Agreed regarding alignment of the rounds...But my point was and is that as related to ammunition failures and potential injury abounds with handling guns. Even breech loaded break action guns.
    People run reloaded ammo and commercially reloaded ammo daily, and weekly there is some one somewhere that suffers a kaboom. Same for commercial ammo too due to overpressures and underpressures resulting in squib loads. Monthly if not weekly.
    (2) Meanwhile with tube magazine fed arms in specific it's like finding a needle in a haystack hard to locate more than one incident never mind three, ten or twenty as relative to all other type of firearms.

    The concern for risk is exceedingly low, IF the handler has a properly functioning and maintained firearm and the ammo is properly loaded within the tubular magazine (see the first link I'd provided).

    Shotgun blown up
    YouTube - shotgun blown up

    Don't get me wrong as I'm not saying do not use Lever Revolution ammo or that the polymer tip is bogus toward that specific view of use/application.
    I am though saying that as against the balance of shooters and instances of tube magazine guns shot using conventional projectiles that have not gone kaboom as against the very small number that have as just within the time that the LeverRevolution commercial round (and XTP projectile for reloaders) has been available...It's not logical to say that there is enough risk that is greater to such a degree to be remarkable.
    (3) I'd feel different if the real world result had been akin to that of say the number of Glocks or [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpIARs that have gone kaboom[/url] even as the mechanical reason for those incident are of course completely different.

    - Janq
    Janq -- I'm so confused I can't even tell if we're talking about the same thing anymore. I've numbered a few things in your post and I'll try and address them.

    1. Never said it doesn't happen. Only that in the 4 I've personally inspected the magazine was ejected in ALL cases with no damage to the rounds in the magazine. In any case, I don't think that any of the items you've linked to indicate that the explosion originated with a round in the magazine exploding. If rounds in the magazine did explode, it was only as a consequence of the explosion of a chambered round.

    2. If you're saying that it's difficult to find an example of the tip of one round in a magazine setting off the primer of the round in front of it, I agree. But it's apples and oranges. Again, all of your links concern some type of explosion resulting from an over charge, plugged barrel, faulty cartridge, faulty weapon, etc. Perhaps it's difficult to find any documentation of tubular magazine detonations because we've been told not to do it for over a 100 years. While it's entirely possible to load this bullet into a 30-30, I'm not crazy enough to try it. Or at least, I value my fingers too much to try it. If I want that type of bullet performance, I'll buy a different rifle.

    3. Again, mainly because no one, or at least no one I've ever known, met or heard of, loads pointed, metal tipped bullets to be used in a tubular magazine. There's nothing wrong with the Leverevolution type bullets. It's what they were designed to be used for.

    Hoss
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