Levergun question: I searched

This is a discussion on Levergun question: I searched within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So today I picked up a Marlin 336, in .35 Remington. I am discussing ammo with the salesman, who is the shop owner. I bought ...

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Thread: Levergun question: I searched

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    Levergun question: I searched

    So today I picked up a Marlin 336, in .35 Remington. I am discussing ammo with the salesman, who is the shop owner.

    I bought some Remington Core-Lokt, but was asking him about the Hornady Lever-revolution. The salesman said that in 30+ years of gun sales, he has never known of a tube ignition of a round due to ammo in a levergun.

    I am curious as to whether anyone has actually heard of, or has personal knowledge of it happeing.

    Thanks.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

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    I've always heard that one keeps pointed bullets out of tube magazines. I may have even read of actual instances where a cartridge in a magazine tube ignited but can't call them to mind. I never felt much like testing the validity of the statement.

    Very cool rifle you bought! I think a Model 336 in .35 Remington would be a great general purpose rifle for ranges up to 200 yards. I would like to have one myself. Any chance of photos?

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Most lever action ammo is round nosed for that reason. I've never seen pointed bullets for, say, .35 or .30-30, .45-70, etc. Just because I've never seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist, though. I suppose a person could handload whatever.
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    BMc, I don't have a camera for that. But, the difference in it and the .30-30, was 28 dollars. And the .30-30 was Birch, instead of Walnut.

    Zacii, when we were talking, salesguy brought over some ammo, and IIRC, they were Rem. Core-lokt, but in 150 grn. They were rather pointed, and that is what later prompted my question to the S/M.

    But, what I bought was Rem. Core-lokt, in 200 grn. and they are very rounded. The first rounds may not have been Rem. but whatever they were, they were either 150, or 180 grn. and more pointed than rounded.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

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    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    I believe that Lever Revolution has the synthetic tips for a reason... mainly to prevent errant primer strikes in the mag tube of a lever gun.

    I generally shoot core lokt in my 336 (30-30), but also keep lever revolution on hand as well. I have noticed that at 100 yards, the LR rounds shoot about 1-1/2 to 2 inches high and about 1/2 inch left from my normal zero with core-lokt 150 gr., but still pattern sub moa. A couple of my running buddies shoot the 35's and have noted pretty much the same. If you can afford to shoot a steady diet of the LeverRevolution ammo, by all means sight in for it. I like to shoot my 336 so much that I couldn't afford to feed it a steady diet of LR, although I do consider it to be ballistically superior to the basic Remington Core Lokt.


    surv

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    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Hers is the difference.....

    between the 2 rounds. I searched it out.

    Ammunition - Shop Premium & Discount Ammunition at MidwayUSA

    The 2 Rem. Core-Lokt on this page shows that the 150 grn. do indeed make a more pointed tip. I bought the 200 grn.
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    Mr. Surveyor, the price is going to limit my usage of the Hornadys also. I will probably have some on hand for the heck of it.

    The price difference of .35 and .30-30 is significant, alone.

    EDIT: I just realized on the online dealer sites, in some cases the Hornadys are cheaper. In the shop, they were more expensive.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    No... never heard of one, seen one, or even know of any reported. However, everyone I know with a lever gun or shoots Cowboy shoots know about the issue and watch their ammo.

    Hornandy Lever-Evolution was made for tube guns, with a soft point that is not SUPPOSED to be strong enough to hit the primer and cause it to fire in the tube.

    On the other side (have no clue if it's correct) that HP's will, and that a hot barrel can cause the bullets in the tube to go off.... I'm not sure I buy it, but that's what is often said.

    Core-Lokt for some reason, doesn't shoot well in my rifles. It may hit left, then right, then high.. it just doesn't want to shoot straight. .... and that's when it's in set vise and tested. Shoot anything else, and it's dead on.

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    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    yep, there is a significant difference in price between the 30-30 and 35, but you do get a lot more bang for the buck.

    Depending on what your intended use of the 336 is, you may be just as well off sticking to the tried and true Core Lokt. Then, experiment with different bullet weights at the range.

    The 35 is an excellent hog killer

    surv

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    No... never heard of one, seen one, or even know of any reported. However, everyone I know with a lever gun or shoots Cowboy shoots know about the issue and watch their ammo.

    Hornandy Lever-Evolution was made for tube guns, with a soft point that is not SUPPOSED to be strong enough to hit the primer and cause it to fire in the tube.

    On the other side (have no clue if it's correct) that HP's will, and that a hot barrel can cause the bullets in the tube to go off.... I'm not sure I buy it, but that's what is often said.

    Core-Lokt for some reason, doesn't shoot well in my rifles. It may hit left, then right, then high.. it just doesn't want to shoot straight. .... and that's when it's in set vise and tested. Shoot anything else, and it's dead on.
    I bought 60 rounds of the Remington. I will get a chance this week to break the Marlin in. I figure I will probably try a few different ones.

    What grain were you getting the poor results with, Eagleks? Also what rifle? Thanks.
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Last year I bought a Marlin Lever Action .357 Magnum and I've used Hornady Leverevolution in it. It's a very smooth and accurate rifle. I like the ability to use 357 or 38 in it and my revolvers as well. It gives me some versatility in both rounds for medium and large game up to about 100 yards. A good woods gun. I've fired round nosed 38s out of it with no problem.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I thought LeverLution was primarily intended to increase BC (higher number equals lower air resistance and thus drag) per applied projectile through the polymer tip resulting in increased accuracy and increased functional distance without otherwise affecting projectile mass. While supporting a cavity type (hollow point) projectile.

    All Other Lever Loads are Pointless!

    LEVERevolution is the most exciting thing to ever happen to lever gun ammunition. Hornady, the leader in ballistic technology, brings you an innovation in ammunition performance featuring state of the industry patented, FTX (Flex Tip eXpanding) bullets that are SAFE in your tubular magazine. Its higher ballistic coefficient delivers dramatically flatter trajectories for fantastic downrange energy increases and amazing bullet expansion at all ranges. It truly is an evolution in lever gun ammunition!

    * Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
    * Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
    * Patented FTX bullet featuring Flex Tip Technology.
    * Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads.

    The innovative LEVERevolution bullet design may require a newer magazine follower to provide best possible functioning of the last round out of the magazine. These magazine followers may be purchased from the manufacturer of your firearm. For optimum performance we do not recommend storing LEVERevolution ammunition in tubular magazines for extended periods, as this can result in tip deformation.

    Hornady LEVERevolution ammunition is loaded with FTX bullets.


    Source - http://www.hornady.com/store/leverevolution
    I've got two boxes of 300 gr. and gone through two more in testing as chambered in .45-70 out of a Marlin 1895.
    That stuff is potent as Hornady manufactures it. But it won't fire as accurate as I prefer out of the 16" barrel ported 'Guide Gun' I've had on loan to me.
    I've got conventional projectile rounds for same in everything from 325 gr. up 405 gr. and frankly I don't see at all as from a mechanical view how under recoil a magazine detonation might occur.
    Conventional .45-70 commercial manufacture ammo projectiles generally do not have a spire point (such as with 5.56/.223) and are rather flat/blunt tipped round nose. Of the projectiles available for reloaders that do have a spire point the fix if one is seriously concerned about this is to download by one round. Magic!

    Also the magazine tube spring more than soaks up recoil with a full magazine to off set supposed and theoretical issue.
    I would imagine same is true for other Marlin lever gun product including the 1894 .38/.357...As that ammo and .35 Remington projectiles are not spire point either.

    I think the world has fallen somewhat for marketing hype as related to lever guns and Hornady LeverRevolution ammo to this end.






    Hornady's LEVERevolution .45/70 load (right) compared to a .308 Winchester cartridge (left).



    When I am in the field I load the Marlin to maximum capacity with .405 gr. and haven't any concern what so ever about recoil induced magazine discharge.

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    P.S. - I LOVE this gun and chambering!
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    Basically akin to firing a 3" 12 ga. Sooo much fun talking about it now is making me want to take it out of storage and hit the range with it to blast big holes in stuff!
    This coming spring/summer I plan/hope to pickup a pimped out 1895 SBL for myself.
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've got a 357 lever and some of the hornady leverevolution ammo. You're probably correct that it is more marketing than reality. Is there some degree of merit to a soft point round in a tube magazine? Probably so, but how much is hard to determine. Can they also pile on top of that it being more aerodynamic and all of the benefits that come with it? Sure. How much true impact it has and whether or not it is significant is hard to tell. I think it is more of a feel good thing for some folks. Either way, their marketing got me to buy some...for whatever reason.
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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Janq is right on.

    The Leverevolution was created to achieve the flight of a pointed bullet without denting primers in the tube. But in reality it depends more on the rifle and caliber and less on the bullet.

    I have a marlin 44 mag lever rifle. The hollowpoints are much larger then the primers
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry ok View Post
    ...........The first rounds may not have been Rem. but whatever they were, they were either 150, or 180 grn. and more pointed than rounded.
    Whether it appears pointed or not, what you will notice about any factory ammo for a lever gun is that it has an exposed lead tip. This soft lead cushions the blow to the primer of the cartridge in front of the bullet.

    I doubt you'll be able to buy any factory ammo for your rifle that wouldn't be safe as the vast majority of 35 Remington rifles were lever guns. Should you decide to handload for your rifle, DO NOT use any pointed, hard-tipped bullets. If you do, you're only asking for trouble. If you want fully jacketed hollowpoint bullet performance, buy a different rifle.

    If you want the LEVERevolution ammo, you might want to look at Cheaper-Than-Dirt (as much as I hate to recommend them). At $21.38 a box, that's as cheap as I see it anywhere.

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