Culture of Safety

Culture of Safety

This is a discussion on Culture of Safety within the Featured Topics forums, part of the Welcome To DefensiveCarry.com category; As a community of gun enthusiasts, we can never lose sight of the rules of gun safety, and want to continue to build on a ...

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Thread: Culture of Safety

  1. #1
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    Culture of Safety



    As a community of gun enthusiasts, we can never lose sight of the rules of gun safety, and want to continue to build on a culture of gun safety in all respects. This will include, of course, the four rules, but also encompass maintaining safe weapons by recognizing the imperatives of manufacturers recalls, ammunition recalls, and other overarching consideration.

    We have a responsibility to ourselves as well as others.

    What other actions will build our culture of safety?
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    Teaching our children safety and integrating the safety culture into everything we do - particularly gun safety.
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    Senior Member Array Dave909's Avatar
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    I think we need a change in mentality more than we need reminders of safe gun handling. The gun community has gotten less about guns and enjoying them, and more warrior-like. I want children to see the Hitchcock45 side of us and guns and not the Funker530. They also need to be sat down and told the truth, that guns aren't evil and can't hurt you by themselves, only you can be evil and hurt others with the gun. Instead of locking up all my guns when a child is around, I'd rather take them to the range and let them get their curiosity out of their system. That's usually the problem, children are curious about everyone and everything around them, and we're too concerned with telling them no and don't touch.

    When we ourselves are out in public, we need to stop dressing head to toe in 5.11..I've seen this far too much lately. We end up drawing attention, and it's often attention we really don't want. I really just think we need a change in attitude about a lot of things more than we need to worry about safety rules...though while we're on safety rules, for the love of God stop wearing your gun in a way that looks like you're trying to shove it up your hind end.

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    With the recent and past warrior like gun handling in videos of students shooting either past each other or at targets with a person down range, safety is a big concern. Anyone seeing this behavior may take this as normal in the gun culture , even if most of us do not condone it. Irresponsible behavior by the few should not cast us all in a negative light, however it usually does.
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    What other actions will build our culture of safety?

    How about re-education for all of the nanny state anti-gunners?
    Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids! C. Eastwood

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    I did my last tour in the Navy at the Naval Safety Center, which was a really cutting edge at that time on safety philosophy for every kind of of system the Navy, Marines and Coast Guard had. This has always been a real interest for me.

    What I think would improve gun safety is an understanding of "system safety." System safety looks at all aspects of safety, from design, manufacture, fitness for use and training, in addition to personal responsibility. It is a contradiction to the approach of "Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch."

    So, yes, if you keep your booger hook off the bang switch, you will be somewhat safe. No denying that. But also, there are some situations where a lack of training and attention can still cause safety problems. We see it all the time with people (including a lot of cops) having NDs and kids getting ahold of guns from parents.

    For instance, if you have really good training and discipline, and you are the only person who could ever possibly touch your gun, the basic rules of gun safety are fine. But if you, or the group you are making gun purchase decisions for, are not in that ideal situation, things like retention holsters, locks, manual safeties, DA/SA and other things may make sense.

    And each individual should be hyper-critical about themselves. System safety recognizes that even people with a lot of experience over-estimate their safey discipline. In fact, after a certain level of experience, people tend to think it's second nature and don't pay as much attention. Studies have shown that people who have safety mishaps tend to be in their first year of operating a system or people who have over 5-10 years' experience. So the guy with 1-5 years of experience will tend to be the safest of all.

    I am a good example. I have been shooting for nearly 53 years. My Dad was a former Gunners Mate and military policeman who taught me right. Later, I competed on a Navy shooting team and I have been through a fair number of shooting courses. I am a stickler about safety. But I have still had two NDs in my life. No one got hurt because I had the guns pointed in a safe direction, but both of them still haunt me. Murphy's law absolutely rules in safety. You have to eliminate everything that can go wrong.
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    What other actions will build our culture of safety?

    To use a current, over-worked phrase, "if you see something, say something." We are all empowered to be aware of safety concerns while shooting and handling firearms, and to make those around us aware as well. This means speaking up when we see something obviously unsafe or potentially so, or - here's the hard part - correcting someone engaged in an unsafe practice. Hurt feelings are way easier to deal with than hurt bodies!

    Martin Luther called it the "priesthood of all believers." In our domain, we all need to be active advocates and guardians of firearms safety.
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    Exclamation Great thread!!!

    There is Firearms Training, a then there is Firearms Safety Training...

    Unfortunately, the latter is a "One and Done" deal for the vast majority of people. The problem with safety training is this:

    "If you don't use it, you will lose it!"

    I remember studying calculus in college, but quite honestly, I couldn't remember enough of it now, to even prove I took the class!

    Likewise, what I have observed over the decades (in firearms training classes, at matches, in gun stores, at gun shows, etc.) is that there is a SEVERE LACK OF TRAINING in safe weapons handling or so it seems.

    Either they never got the training, it was deficient or they just plain forgot it. And it's usually the latter.

    I've asked people that I see mishandling a firearm if they've had any firearms safety training. Some have, some have not. Others say things like this (this is an actual conversation I had recently):

    A gunsmith client walks into my shop with a gun case. I ask him to put the box on the work bench next to me. He does, then opens the case, picks the gun up and muzzles me. I push the gun away (and step aside) telling him to put it down on the bench...

    ME: "Have you ever had any firearms safety training?"

    Client: "Oh, yeah, I had to take a course to get my carry permit."

    Me: "Really? You just covered ME with the muzzle of your gun."

    Student: "Well, it's not loaded..."

    ME: "See that hole in the floor right there? That's what another guy thought, too."
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    Lightbulb

    A few years ago I walked into a gun shop, I see the salesman reach into the glass case, grab a handgun and hand it to a customer who takes it and inadvertently points it at me as he examines it. So, the conversation went like this:

    ME: "Hey, Man, would you mind NOT pointing that muzzle at me?"

    Customer: "Well it's not loaded!"

    ME: "How do you know, you didn't check it?"

    Salesman: "Oh, we'd never hand anyone a loaded gun."

    ME: "How did YOU know it wasn't loaded? I didn't see you check it. You should ALWAYS safety check a gun before you hand it to a customer."


    Then recently I saw this video. Note the guys off to the Cops left. They don't know it yet, but they are down range!!!


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    Now the famous comment, Oh, I didn't know the gun was loaded.
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    Lightbulb Proposed New Rule

    THE OLD RULE: "Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until proven otherwise."

    Ok, then what?

    At that point does that make it O.K. to point it at yourself or someone else?


    In my experience people get REALLY SLOPPY & LAZY in their weapons handling protocols because they THINK the gun is "SAFE" (i.e., unloaded) when in fact it's not.

    PROPOSED NEW RULE:

    "ALWAYS Handle GUNS as if they were LOADED even when they're NOT!!!"

    I am talking about in regards to muzzle sweeps and trigger finger placement.

    I believe this NEW RULE would prevent a lot of accidental shootings, because we would get more:

    "Firearms Safety & Weapons Handling Training Time"
    Last edited by DRM; March 30th, 2017 at 07:01 PM.
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    On the positive side, it seems we're doing something right.

    Accidental gun deaths hit record low, even amid recent boom in firearms sales | Fox News

    'NSC’s “Injury Facts -2017 Edition” shows a 17 percent decrease in accidents involving firearms from 2014 to 2015, a period when gun sales soared.

    There were 489 unintentional firearms-related fatalities during that time period, the lowest total since record-keeping began in 1903, accounting for less than 1 percent of accident deaths. This decrease, which was the largest percentage decline of any category cited in the NSC’s report, came in a year that saw record-high firearm sales.'
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    Lightbulb

    Top 20 Leading Causes of Nonfatal Unintentional Injury in the United States in 2014, All Races, Both Sexes, Disposition: All Cases

    According to this link (below) GUNSHOTS rank 20th overall...

    https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

    So, according the CDC, there were 15,928 people ACCIDENTALLY shot with firearms in 2014.


    That's OVER 40 People Per Day...

    So, it looks like we still have plenty of work to do folks.


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    Exclamation An eye opening a.d.

    I grew up on a small farm. My Dad was an avid hunter, so I grew up with long guns, but handguns were never in our house. So, I knew SQUAT about handguns.

    Then I quit my Machinery Designer job because I wanted to be a cop. One day I saw a police cruiser pull up in front of my house. I said to my wife Barb, "Hey George is here, I'm going out to see him" and I did.

    He was on duty and in uniform. He got out of the patrol car and said, "Hey, I heard you got a new gun, how'd it shoot?"

    So, NEWBIE HANDGUN owner me, removed the .38 S&W Revo from my concealment holster, opened the cylinder, pointed the muzzle down and handed it to the Sr. Patrolman butt first and said, "It's loaded" just like I had been taught. NOPE!! SORRY!! BAD IDEA!!

    George took the gun, pointed it upwards, opened the cylinder and shook the rounds out of the gun catching them in his hand. He was looking at ME (not the gun) and talking while he then dumped them into his pocket.

    He then pointed the gun at my house (I thought, well, it's not loaded, so I guess it's OK). He then began to dry fire it saying, "Man this trigger needs some work!" and I heard "Click, click, KABOOM!! He shot a round through my living room window screen and I took off running inside, George right behind me. I ran into the kitchen to find my expectant wife who was unhurt, but VERY, VERY MAD .

    George & I were completely dumbfounded. He said, "I'm Sorry Barb! I thought it was unloaded!". And I said, "And I did too!".

    The bullet had missed Barb by just over a foot. And get this:

    It was a .38 Special Remington FBI Load of a 125 Grain H.P. +P (department issue ammo).

    Still in shock, George and I went outside and sat on the front porch. He opened the cylinder up and there was (1) empty case STILL in the chamber!!!!

    George then said, "The chambers are dirty, that round must have got stuck in the chamber."

    I had been shooting cheap (dirty) reloads at the range, and then I loaded the H.P. ammo up for the ride home.

    WOW! I was just relieved that my wife who was carrying our 1st child were both safe. Thank you Lord!

    What we learned from this incident was this:

    1. Just because YOU THINK a gun is unloaded, doesn't mean it is!

    2. Always use the ejector to kick the cases out, don't dump them out!

    3. Always get a VISUAL ON THE BLACK HOLE(S) to verify the gun is empty!

    4. Never point a gun at anything you don't want to shoot, PERIOD!

    Thus began my life's mission to anaylize EVERY A.D. I saw, to try and figure out what happened; Why it happened and try to find solutions to prevent them from ever happening again.

    So, yeah, I've been called ANAL about Firearms Safety. Oh, well!!
    Last edited by DRM; April 1st, 2017 at 07:14 AM.
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    Exclamation

    I had a client send me a G19 for custom work. It came in via UPS. So, I went to log it in, pulled the out the mag and it was empty (check! ). Then I racked the slide back and there was a loaded round in the chamber. OOPS!!!

    Well, this ain't the first time I've seen this sorta thing, but hopefully it's the last.

    You just can't be too complacent about firearms safety.
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