Unusual cross-state transaction question

Unusual cross-state transaction question

This is a discussion on Unusual cross-state transaction question within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hi all. To my understanding, if a handgun crosses a state border in a private sale, it must go through an FFL. I have a ...

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Unusual cross-state transaction question

  1. #1
    New Member Array Bama13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6

    Unusual cross-state transaction question

    Hi all. To my understanding, if a handgun crosses a state border in a private sale, it must go through an FFL. I have a somewhat different situation. I am looking at buying a handgun that would be my first CC gun from a friend of mine my dad's age, so he's a bit older than me. He bought the gun about 3 and a half years ago when he lived in Georgia, and he has since moved to Alabama (where I live). When he moved, he brought his guns along with all his other stuff.

    My questions is this: for a private sale, do I need to go through an FFL if both of us live in and are residents of the same state, even if the handgun was purchased in a different state? If it is legal, would it still be perfectly fine to carry the gun across state borders, assuming reciprocity exists in that state?

    From what I've read on the ATF and other websites, the only restriction on private sales is if the handgun crosses a state border in the process of the transaction. This wouldn't be the case here, as we would just meet up at the range to make the transaction. The reason I'm even wondering this much about it is because it will be my CC gun, so I want to make sure I get everything right.

    Bama


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    2,701
    Federal law doesn't care where the original state of sale is. No problem after someone has changed states of residence to sell a firearm to another resident of that same state as long as all state laws are followed you are fine.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member
    Array accessbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Federal law doesn't care where the original state of sale is. No problem after someone has changed states of residence to sell a firearm to another resident of that same state as long as all state laws are followed you are fine.
    ^^^^^^^^^ +1 ^^^^^^^^^
    EDC - Glock 21C, M&P Shield .40 OR Ruger SR1911 CMD AND
    Ruger LCP in Desantis Pocket Holster (backup)
    Member - SAF, OFF,
    NRA Life Member

  4. #4
    New Member Array Bama13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6
    Excellent, that is just what I needed to know. Thanks to both of you for clearing this up for me.

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama13 View Post
    Hi all. To my understanding, if a handgun crosses a state border in a private sale, it must go through an FFL. I have a somewhat different situation. I am looking at buying a handgun that would be my first CC gun from a friend of mine my dad's age, so he's a bit older than me. He bought the gun about 3 and a half years ago when he lived in Georgia, and he has since moved to Alabama (where I live). When he moved, he brought his guns along with all his other stuff.

    My questions is this: for a private sale, do I need to go through an FFL if both of us live in and are residents of the same state, even if the handgun was purchased in a different state? If it is legal, would it still be perfectly fine to carry the gun across state borders, assuming reciprocity exists in that state?

    From what I've read on the ATF and other websites, the only restriction on private sales is if the handgun crosses a state border in the process of the transaction. This wouldn't be the case here, as we would just meet up at the range to make the transaction. The reason I'm even wondering this much about it is because it will be my CC gun, so I want to make sure I get everything right.

    Bama
    Though your question has been answered, I am going to elaborate on a few points you mention. Your question is refers to certain provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act (GCA), specifically 18 U.S.C. chapter 44 & 27 CFR Part 478. Federal law governs both licensed and unlicensed persons pertaining to firearms.

    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his state, if he does not know or have reason to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the persons own state, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides.

    That is Federal law. A few states require handgun sales or trades to be made through an FFL. This pertains only to CA, MA, HI, IL and US territories. I may have missed a state. C&R firearms are an exception in most states.

    Reciprocity per se has no bearing on Interstate handgun transfers. A person not licensed under CGA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out of state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchasers state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. This includes out of state purchase of C&R firearms.

    You mention that the handgun will be your CC or EDC. A few states prohibit the carry of a handgun with a caliber larger than what the person qualified with with testing for CCW permit or endorsement. Neither GA or AL has such a law.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    1,483
    KENTUCKY

    One way I read the law is seems legal for me to ship a firearm via common or contract carrier to another individual in our mutual state (f.e. Kentucky) Simply stated, I can ship a pistol from, Hudaz, Kentucky to Louisville Kentucky as long as it by, common or contract carrier.

    Elsewhere I read that this only applies to shotguns and rifles.

    If someone in KY could educate me, I would be darn greatful.

    Diddle


    ps ATF TRANSFER INFO
    Diddle
    Indusrtrial Machine Tool Technician - Certified Refrigeration Technician - CET
    NRA Life Member

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Elsewhere I read that this only applies to shotguns and rifles.

    If someone in KY could educate me, I would be darn greatful.

    Diddle
    HOTGUNS would know
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Diddle View Post
    KENTUCKY

    One way I read the law is seems legal for me to ship a firearm via common or contract carrier to another individual in our mutual state (f.e. Kentucky) Simply stated, I can ship a pistol from, Hudaz, Kentucky to Louisville Kentucky as long as it by, common or contract carrier.

    Elsewhere I read that this only applies to shotguns and rifles.

    If someone in KY could educate me, I would be darn greatful.

    Diddle


    ps ATF TRANSFER INFO

    To answer your question, An non-licensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident in his or her own state to a licensee in any state. A common carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.21 & 478.30]

    A common carrier or contract carrier wound normally be UPS, FedEx or DHL but could also include any licensed currier including a taxi cab.

    The reason for this provision of Federal is to because Federal law states that a licensee may NOT transfer a firearm to a unlicensed resident of another state vis U.S. Postal Service. A non licensee MAY mail a shotgun or rifle via U.S Postal Service to a resident in his or her own state OR to a licensee in ANY state. Handguns are not mailable by non licensees vis the U.S. Postal Service.[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) & 922(a)(2)(A)]

    FFL Dealer and Manufactures may ship either long guns or handguns via U.S. Postal Service. Handguns need only to be declared on PS Form 1508, signed by an authorized person (not necessarily the Responsible FFL). The form must be delivered by the Dealer or Manufacturer, with the handgun(s) being shipped, to a post office. This is because Form 1508 must be postmarked and signed by the receiving postal clerk.

    No persons are allowed to ship ammunition via USPS.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    15,120
    SIGP250 got it.
    Good job.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    1,483
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    SIGP250 got it.
    Good job.
    DITTO! Thank you for taking the time to help us. Much appreciated.

    There is a single word I am looking for: is it:

    An non-licensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident in his or her own state to a licensee in any state. A common carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.21 & 478.30]

    OR is it

    An non-licensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident in his or her own state OR to a licensee in any state. A common carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.21 & 478.30]

    Note the word, OR in the 2nd paragraph.

    The OR make a big difference.
    Diddle
    Indusrtrial Machine Tool Technician - Certified Refrigeration Technician - CET
    NRA Life Member

  11. #11
    New Member Array Bama13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Though your question has been answered, I am going to elaborate on a few points you mention. Your question is refers to certain provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act (GCA), specifically 18 U.S.C. chapter 44 & 27 CFR Part 478. Federal law governs both licensed and unlicensed persons pertaining to firearms.

    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his state, if he does not know or have reason to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the persons own state, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides.

    That is Federal law. A few states require handgun sales or trades to be made through an FFL. This pertains only to CA, MA, HI, IL and US territories. I may have missed a state. C&R firearms are an exception in most states.

    Reciprocity per se has no bearing on Interstate handgun transfers. A person not licensed under CGA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out of state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchasers state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. This includes out of state purchase of C&R firearms.

    You mention that the handgun will be your CC or EDC. A few states prohibit the carry of a handgun with a caliber larger than what the person qualified with with testing for CCW permit or endorsement. Neither GA or AL has such a law.
    So just to make sure I am reading this right: buying the gun in my described situation would still be 100% legal. If I bought it and it became my EDC, there would be some states that I could not carry in even though reciprocity is allowed in that state?

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama13 View Post
    So just to make sure I am reading this right: buying the gun in my described situation would still be 100% legal. If I bought it and it became my EDC, there would be some states that I could not carry in even though reciprocity is allowed in that state?
    Where you obtain your carry firearm has no bearing on what states you can carry in. If the state other than your own has reciprocity with your home state you can carry there as long as you follow their laws on concealed carry. There are no additional restrictions based on where you obtained the carry firearm.

  13. #13
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Diddle View Post
    DITTO! Thank you for taking the time to help us. Much appreciated.

    There is a single word I am looking for: is it:

    An non-licensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident in his or her own state to a licensee in any state. A common carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.21 & 478.30]

    OR is it

    An non-licensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident in his or her own state OR to a licensee in any state. A common carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.21 & 478.30]

    Note the word, OR in the 2nd paragraph.

    The OR make a big difference.
    One more time with a couple examples:

    The examples assume you are an unlicensed citizen able to posses firearm under Federal law

    1. You are sending a rifle or shotgun. Your choice of shipping methods is any common or contract carrier such as UPS, FedEx Or U.S. Postal Service.
    You can ship to any person ONLY within your state of residency. exceptions: A. You may ship Any firearm to a licenced dealer or manufacturer in state or out of state. Why? It needs to be returned for repair or gunsmith work. What method? Any shipping method, unless it is a handgun.

    B. You may ship (forward) a rifle or shotgun to yourself. Say you travel to another state for sporting or hunting purposes. By law. a packege containing a rifle or shotgun could be sent to a friends house, a hunting lodge or a business none of whom is a licenced firearm dealer. You are to instruct any person not to open the package (addressed to you). You must arrive at your destination in another state and open the package yourself.

    2. You are sending a handgun. Your choice for shipping is only by common carrier and must be sent 2nd Day Air or Next day Air.(even if sending 20 mikes away). You cannot send handguns via the U.S. Postal Service.

    You can ship ANY firearm(s) to a person within your state of residency. If you ship beyond your state it can only be shipped to a dealer or manufacturer.

    Shipping firearms is not limited any any way to only within your own state but there are limitations to wh an how you can ship to unlicenced persons intrastate and interstate. it would not be possible for you to send a firearm, rifle, shotgun or handgun to a manufacture for repairs or even to a gunsmith if certion exceptions we not allowed. You can at least send a gun out of state yourself for repairs without the need for an FFL to sent it for you.

    Sending by UPS or FedEx is always more expensive than USPS flat rate or Regional A or B Methods. USPS Parcel Post (snail mail) is the very least expensive so this might be a good choice to ship a shotgun if you don't mind waiting 5 or more busines days.
    Last edited by SIGP250; May 2nd, 2012 at 11:04 PM.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  14. #14
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Where you obtain your carry firearm has no bearing on what states you can carry in. If the state other than your own has reciprocity with your home state you can carry there as long as you follow their laws on concealed carry. There are no additional restrictions based on where you obtained the carry firearm.
    Correct.
    Where you purchase a firearm, the method you use to ship is not related in any way to a permit to carry open concealed or both. In some states where certain guns must be registered, an FFL is normally needed since additional registration paperwork must be forwarded to State Police or the local body having jurisdiction over firearms registration. Again, Firearms registration (where required) is entirely separate from a permit or endorsement to carry concealed or open and has nothing to do with reciprocity between states.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cross state transaction
,
georgia out of state gun purchase
,
how to out of state transactions of guns
,
if i buy a pistol from a individual in missouri do we need to go through a ffl dealer
,

if i have an ffl can i transport a gun elsewhere for work

,
kentucky cross state border property transaction
,

missouri private gun sale

,

missouri private gun sale laws

,

missouri private handgun sale

,

private gun sales in missouri

,
private sale of a long gun from mo to a non border state
,

private sale of firearms in missouri

Click on a term to search for related topics.