Buy online, fail NICS

This is a discussion on Buy online, fail NICS within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Searched around but didn't see anything on this. I'm looking at buying a rifle from Cheaper Than Dirt. Their FAQ section specifically states that guns ...

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Thread: Buy online, fail NICS

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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    Buy online, fail NICS

    Searched around but didn't see anything on this.

    I'm looking at buying a rifle from Cheaper Than Dirt. Their FAQ section specifically states that guns cannot be returned, even if you fail the NICS and can't take possession from your FFL.

    What are your options at that point?

    I have no reason to believe I'd fail, but who knows with all the crazy stuff going on.

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  3. #2
    Member Array Mn01r6's Avatar
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    Your first step should be to appeal the NICS denial so you can have your gun. Your ffl will hold on to the gun through this process and will probably have some proposal for buying or consigning your gun if you don't win your appeal. They may charge you for bailment (safekeeping) if you cannot effect or agree to a transfer within a certain amount of time. Bottom line: ask your ffl.
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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Seems buying weapons online can be a "roll of the dice"..........
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    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanco64 View Post
    Searched around but didn't see anything on this.

    I'm looking at buying a rifle from Cheaper Than Dirt. Their FAQ section specifically states that guns cannot be returned, even if you fail the NICS and can't take possession from your FFL.

    What are your options at that point?

    I have no reason to believe I'd fail, but who knows with all the crazy stuff going on.
    Frankly, I would think you could find a good or better deal here in KY and avoid the shipping cost and the FFL transfer fees. In NKY you should have a lot of options. As far as a denied or delayed transfer, I have never gotten that responce from NICS. One thing that helps is to provide your SSN on the 4473. That IS NOT required but it can make significant difference sometimes.

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    Member Array HardBall's Avatar
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    I don't buy guns online for a few reasons, the paperwork being one of them. I like to see and hold the gun I'm buying as well. By the time it's all said and done is the wait and other little quarks worth the savings assuming there is a savings after shipping and associated fees have been applied.
    It's also nice to support your LGS now and then so they don't become a distant memory. IMHO
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanco64 View Post
    Searched around but didn't see anything on this.

    I'm looking at buying a rifle from Cheaper Than Dirt. Their FAQ section specifically states that guns cannot be returned, even if you fail the NICS and can't take possession from your FFL.

    What are your options at that point? I have no reason to believe I'd fail, but who knows with all the crazy stuff going on
    I sell hundreds of firearms and accessories on line. We have a 30 day no questions asked return policy on most items we sell. That's better than most local gunshops. Exceptions we impose on returns are new firearms that have been fired. No gun shop can resell an item as new if it is not. We also cannot accept returns on ammunition we sell.

    Return shipping is usually the customers responsibility and some items are subject to a 15% restocking charge. We inspect all returns. If a product is found to be defective or missing parts out of the box, we pay the return shipping and will either offer an exchange or a full refund.

    Buyers need to be accountable. A person having any reason to believe that thay cannot legally posess a firearm under Federal or State law should first review ATF Publication 5300-4 available on line at www.atf.gov.

    If a person is denied by NICS the fiream can be returned by the FFL at the buyers expense and subject to a restocking fee or he may be able to negeotiate a sale with the transfering FFL.


    There are many good reasons to purchase on line. These may include availability of the firearm, substantial discounts and no sales tax. The benefits usually far out weigh normal transfer fees.
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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    I agree with buying locally when possible for the same reasons stated above (support for local dealers, being able to check out the item first, etc.) My LGS sells for about what it would cost online after shipping and FFL transfer fees. Additionally, if you purchase and item online that you could have bought through them, they impose an additional $30 fee on top of the regular $20 FFL transfer fee (I don't fault them in this, it's good business sense). In this case though I was looking at the Chinese Type 53's that CTD is selling. My LGS told me they can't get those through their distributor.

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    I know for a fact that I can buy a firearm before I try to buy one,In Tx if you have a CHL the FFL doesn't even call in for authorization they just enter your license number.
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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I know for a fact that I can buy a firearm before I try to buy one,In Tx if you have a CHL the FFL doesn't even call in for authorization they just enter your license number.
    Well, after posting this question when I went to the LGS to ask about the FFL transfer, they told me that in Kentucky if you're CCDW then they don't have to phone it in, just fill out the form. That takes some of the apprehension out of it.

    So now that I've placed my order, I'm like a little kid: When's it gonna be here!!??

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    unless I don't remember Kentucky correctly, I believe Kentucky does a background check on you when you get a CCL ..... which is in essence a NICS check. If you passed that, there's no reason to assume you wouldn't pass the NICS check.
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    I work in a gun store in Northern Kentucky. If you have a Kentucky CCDW, all you do is make out the 4473, show your CCDW, and purchase the firearm. No NICS check is done, as Kentucky has already done it when you got your CCDW. We do lots of FFL transfers in the store I work in. All of the FFL transfers I have done, the firearm has been in the condition described. Yes, done a number with Cheaper Than Dirt and they do a good job, no worries. Hope this helps. By the way, the store I work at charges $25 per firearm for the FFL transfer. That is what most of the shops around here charge. Don't pay more than that. Just remember that all of the gun shops in Kentucky have to report guns transferred from out of state to the Kentucky Department of Revenue. When you submit your Kentucky Income Tax form, you must list the firearm purchased from out of state and pay 6% sales tax on it. If not, the KY Dept of Revenue WILL charge you the tax, penalty and interest. It used to be that when you bought stuff from out of state, you didnt get charged sales tax, and you could save a few bucks on that. Not any longer of firearms from out of state. Take care.

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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbobb50 View Post
    I work in a gun store in Northern Kentucky. If you have a Kentucky CCDW, all you do is make out the 4473, show your CCDW, and purchase the firearm. No NICS check is done, as Kentucky has already done it when you got your CCDW. We do lots of FFL transfers in the store I work in. All of the FFL transfers I have done, the firearm has been in the condition described. Yes, done a number with Cheaper Than Dirt and they do a good job, no worries. Hope this helps. By the way, the store I work at charges $25 per firearm for the FFL transfer. That is what most of the shops around here charge. Don't pay more than that. Just remember that all of the gun shops in Kentucky have to report guns transferred from out of state to the Kentucky Department of Revenue. When you submit your Kentucky Income Tax form, you must list the firearm purchased from out of state and pay 6% sales tax on it. If not, the KY Dept of Revenue WILL charge you the tax, penalty and interest. It used to be that when you bought stuff from out of state, you didnt get charged sales tax, and you could save a few bucks on that. Not any longer of firearms from out of state. Take care.
    Thanks bobbobb50. If I haven't already, most likely I'll run into you soon (although we probably won't realize it, since my username is very different than my real name).

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    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
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    You just descibed one of the risks of buying a gun online. If there was any suspicion that there was going to be trouble with the NICS, I wouldn't buy online. Otherwise, your only recourse is to have the FFL or another person willing to give you the money you paid and aquire the gun for their own use or inventory. Remember that no one can complete the BATF forms in their name and transfer the gun to you, but I'm sure you knew that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocT65 View Post
    You just described one of the risks of buying a gun on line. If there was any suspicion that there was going to be trouble with the NICS, I wouldn't buy on line. Otherwise, your only recourse is to have the FFL or another person willing to give you the money you paid and acquire the gun for their own use or inventory. Remember that no one can complete the BATF forms in their name and transfer the gun to you, but I'm sure you knew that one.
    I see no risk what so ever. More that 20% of ALL retail transactions will be done via on-line sales this year. Up about 3% from last year. You probably take more risk driving your car to a local gun shop. What is important is to make sure you are dealing with a legitimate on-line retailer. This means 1) a secure encrypted PCI compliant website. This information is mandatory for any website that accepts credit cards.

    All websites that accept Visa or Mastercard will use a third party merchant services provider and a bank processor that will insist on published Terms and Conditions, a Privacy Statement, and written shipping and returns policy. The websites must also be SSL secured (encrypted data socket) Look for this when you check out. It will be HTTP:// if it is secure and http:// if it is not. You will also see an SSL seal of the underwriter Verisign, Trustwave, Go Daddy, Network Solutions and a few others.

    Merchant services providers act as middle men. In addition an electronic gateway is used to route transactions between major bank processors such as Global Payments, HSBC Bank and Bank of Omaha. That takes care of the merchants responsibility. It is the consumers responsibility to read the terms of sale. It is not fine print. In many cases, store poicy is no different that of a brick and mortar store's policy if it is not one in the same.

    If you buy a gun from a brick and mortar store and return it, you can't expect a 100% refund. Retailers work on very slim margins and many sales people are working on commission. Time is money!

    It is like expecting free shipping. Who do you expect is going to deliver for free, the tooth fairy? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE SHIPPING. Understand this. Shipping costs money. For order clerks, packers, warehouse and for the the carrier be it UPS USPS FedEx or SpeeDee delivery. Retailers who offer free shipping must charge more for their product. If you buy from a brick an mortar store it costs you too, at least for gas. More if you actually wnted to split hairs and calculate the value of your time, cost of driving your vehicle, etc.

    Back to an NICS denial. If you are denied, you probably already know the reason why. Guns are for law abiding citizens. Responsibility for owning a firearm begins with a background check. States that accept a CCW in lieu of a background check have accessed the risk by previously checking your background not only with NICS but with a CLE who must approve your CCW and fingerprint you.

    Retailers on-line or behind the counter are actually assuming risk as much as any customer. Time spent on a denial is a big hassle for all and costs time and money. Someone needs to pay. Do you really think it should be the retailer?
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    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    I see no risk what so ever. More that 20% of ALL retail transactions will be done via on-line sales this year. Up about 3% from last year. You probably take more risk driving your car to a local gun shop. What is important is to make sure you are dealing with a legitimate on-line retailer. This means 1) a secure encrypted PCI compliant website. This information is mandatory for any website that accepts credit cards.

    All websites that accept Visa or Mastercard will use a third party merchant services provider and a bank processor that will insist on published Terms and Conditions, a Privacy Statement, and written shipping and returns policy. The websites must also be SSL secured (encrypted data socket) Look for this when you check out. It will be HTTP:// if it is secure and http:// if it is not. You will also see an SSL seal of the underwriter Verisign, Trustwave, Go Daddy, Network Solutions and a few others.

    Merchant services providers act as middle men. In addition an electronic gateway is used to route transactions between major bank processors such as Global Payments, HSBC Bank and Bank of Omaha. That takes care of the merchants responsibility. It is the consumers responsibility to read the terms of sale. It is not fine print. In many cases, store poicy is no different that of a brick and mortar store's policy if it is not one in the same.

    If you buy a gun from a brick and mortar store and return it, you can't expect a 100% refund. Retailers work on very slim margins and many sales people are working on commission. Time is money!

    It is like expecting free shipping. Who do you expect is going to deliver for free, the tooth fairy? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE SHIPPING. Understand this. Shipping costs money. For order clerks, packers, warehouse and for the the carrier be it UPS USPS FedEx or SpeeDee delivery. Retailers who offer free shipping must charge more for their product. If you buy from a brick an mortar store it costs you too, at least for gas. More if you actually wnted to split hairs and calculate the value of your time, cost of driving your vehicle, etc.

    Back to an NICS denial. If you are denied, you probably already know the reason why. Guns are for law abiding citizens. Responsibility for owning a firearm begins with a background check. States that accept a CCW in lieu of a background check have accessed the risk by previously checking your background not only with NICS but with a CLE who must approve your CCW and fingerprint you.

    Retailers on-line or behind the counter are actually assuming risk as much as any customer. Time spent on a denial is a big hassle for all and costs time and money. Someone needs to pay. Do you really think it should be the retailer?
    I think you missed my point.

    The risk I referred to has nothing to do with credit cards or the seller shipping to the FFL holder. It has everything to do with the purchaser being able to take final delivery of the weapon from the FFL. If you fail the NICS, you cannot take delivery. When this occurs, the weapon you have purchased is stuck in limbo with the FFL holder. I know of no distributor that will accept a return of a firearm after shipment.

    Buying a firearm online is a little different than buying an electric toothbrush from Amazon.
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