shipping a firearm to a FFL

shipping a firearm to a FFL

This is a discussion on shipping a firearm to a FFL within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My son wanted me to get him a firearm and I made arrangements to have another FFL in MD receive it and do the paperwork. ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array KnotRight's Avatar
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    shipping a firearm to a FFL

    My son wanted me to get him a firearm and I made arrangements to have another FFL in MD receive it and do the paperwork. My question is what is the best way to ship the handgun to the other FFL. I know when I shipped a Taurus back to the factory, UPS wanted $60. When I got this gun from Lipsey's the shipping charges were only $20 and it was shipped 2 day FedEx.

    Do you have to declare it is a handgun?
    Do you need to show UPS or FedEx that it is going from a FFL to another FFL?
    Can you ship ammo with the firearm? Either UPS or FedEx had the same thing that USPS has, if it fits it is one price?

    Thanks,


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    If it is a handgun ship FedEx or UPS. Do not tell anyone what is in it. It is just another package in their system. You do not have to declare it. I ship them sometimes when I travel if I have a stop in a gun unfriendly location. It will be handled just like any other package. You don't have to show them anything. Just ship it. It is the FFLs that will ensure things are done legally.

    I do not recommend shipping ammo with it because it is something that does has to be declared if it could travel by air.
    JulesWinnfield likes this.

  3. #3
    Member Array KnotRight's Avatar
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    Thanks OutWestSystems

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    I would look into that a bit more. My understanding is that FFL's can ship 2 day (cheaper). Non FFL's have to ship next day ($60-$80) and both UPS/Fed Ex state you must declare it. It should not be labeled as a firearm but must be declared. Most local branches won't accept the package either, it has to go out of a HUB.

    I guess you could ship it like out west suggests and all will be fine if it makes it there. If it is lost or stolen you are out the ca$h and have some explaining to due.

  5. #5
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    I would look into that a bit more. My understanding is that FFL's can ship 2 day (cheaper). Non FFL's have to ship next day ($60-$80) and both UPS/Fed Ex state you must declare it. It should not be labeled as a firearm but must be declared. Most local branches won't accept the package either, it has to go out of a HUB.

    All the local branches ship here. If one is worried about it not getting to its destination, you just insure it for what it is worth. Not a big deal really.

    It is as OutWestSystem says.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #6
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    STOP.

    Unless you are an FFL, you are NOT allowed to ship a handgun any way except by common carrier, overnight. Violation of this rule - including failure to declare that you are shipping a firearm - is a Federal felony.

    Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF

    Firearms Shipping Guide- GunBroker.com Help Center

    Federal Firearm Licensees may ship guns among themselves at lower rates, but we mere mortals may not. Yes,. you have to declare it as both a firearm and a handgun. Overall, it's generally easier and cheaper for a dealer to handle the shipping, unless he charges you exorbitent fees.

    To the best of my knowledge, only UPS will ship small arms ammo and will whack you fees for that as well - see here: UPS: Shipping Firearms or Ammunition

    And the short answer is, NO, don't send ammo in the same package with the gun.
    Smitty
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array tmoore912's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    If you look up [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31] you will see that you are NOT required to notify the common carrier (UPS FedEx) your package contains a firearm if you are shipping to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors. There are many that consider the ATF wording to be wrong on their website.

    922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful --

    (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that --

    (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

    (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
    178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

    (a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped:
    Their is also nothing in the law stating UPS/FedEx has to ship it overnight. Don't take my word for it though...................read the law yourself.

    18 U.S.C. 922 - Unlawful acts

    ATF letters about shipping requirements:

    http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/GunStu...ping/batf1.jpg
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  8. #8
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    Unless you are an FFL, you are NOT allowed to ship a handgun any way except by common carrier, overnight. Violation of this rule - including failure to declare that you are shipping a firearm - is a Federal felony
    This is only true of the USPO which will not ship handguns unless you have an FFL. I get them all the time from the USPO.(I am an FFL) It is registered mail and it does require a signature.



    Do you need to show UPS or FedEx that it is going from a FFL to another FFL?
    Not usually required unless it is required in your state.

    No. The person that receives the gun must be an FFL. Not required of the shipper. For instance, a gun going back to the manufacturer(liscensee) for repair. An out of state person selling a gun to a person in your state, must do the transfer through an FFL.


    Can you ship ammo with the firearm? Either UPS or FedEx had the same thing that USPS has, if it fits it is one price?
    You can not ship ammo with the gun. It must be separate.



    To clarify...

    : To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    "Liscensee" being an FFL.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]




    : May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]



    Clear as mud?
    CLASS3NH likes this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  9. #9
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    I found it to be cheaper for me to have my FFL dealer ship handguns for me due to their ability to ship USPS at lower rates. YMMV.
    "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Lewis

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockymonster View Post
    I found it to be cheaper for me to have my FFL dealer ship handguns for me due to their ability to ship USPS at lower rates. YMMV.
    Locals here charge transfer fees on the shipping end plus shipping. It's cheaper for me to ship UPS overnight. I also have the paperwork and tracking info in hand when I walk out.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  11. #11
    Member Array KnotRight's Avatar
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    I went to the post office and told them that I wanted to ship a handgun to a Maryland dealer and that I was a dealer. They requested that I show them my FFL and the other guy's. The gun had to be shipped priority mail and have an adult signature. I think the whole bill was around $19.00.

    The last time I shipped a gun to Taurus, UPS made me ship it overnight and the cost was $60.00

  12. #12
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    The last time I shipped a gun to Taurus, UPS made me ship it overnight and the cost was $60.00
    I just send one by UPS Friday. Only cost 18 bucks. Did you tell them you were an FFL?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  13. #13
    Member Array KnotRight's Avatar
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    HotGuns, Yes

  14. #14
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    OK, now I'm confused. I got my information from the ATF (quoted below) per the citation I gave, above. To be clear, I'm talking about what is required for those of us who are not FFLs.

    Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
    Post #7 suggests that this is not the case.

    If I rely on what the ATF states, then indeed I must inform the common carrier that my shipment is a firearm. And although it may not be Federal law, neither UPS nor FedEx will ship a handgun other than by overnight express.

    The ATF letter linked in post #7 is dated 2001; the info I cite is current as of my initial post.

    Having just forked over almost $80 to ship a handgun back to the factory, I'm annoyed at having to pay extortionary shipping rates because UPS and FedEx have internal theft problems. But I see conflicting information offered here, and would welcome some clarification.
    Smitty
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array tmoore912's Avatar
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    Nowhere in the Federal Laws that are referenced by the ATF on their webpage, does it say that a non-licensee (you.....the regular Joe citizen) has to declare the gun to the shipper if you are shipping to a "licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors".

    The ATF letter I posted a link to confirms this. Its not me saying it..............it's the ATF saying it.

    There is also no mention in the referenced laws that it has to be shipped over night. That means the ATF's wording on their official website is wrong and misleading.
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