A question for FFL dealers

A question for FFL dealers

This is a discussion on A question for FFL dealers within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I "bought" a pistol online Saturday. After discussion with the gun shop (an actual FFL 01 storefront), we made a trade. One of mine for ...

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Thread: A question for FFL dealers

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    A question for FFL dealers

    I "bought" a pistol online Saturday. After discussion with the gun shop (an actual FFL 01 storefront), we made a trade. One of mine for his, straight up.
    The one I want needs to go to an FFL, for transfer. I shipped mine out on Monday, which I was told I could do because I technically have a dealer's license, an FFL 03. I filled out the PO form they have. He's waiting until he receives mine before shipping his. Why is that?

    Do shops/sellers really think that there is some elaborate plan between buyers and their transfer FFL to somehow steal the pistol? We each have the other's information, a federal license. He can look them up online. One of us would have to be pretty stupid to try to pull one over, wouldn't they? And I know I'm asking for the FFL's here to read his mind, but how do you feel on the subject? I was hoping we would each get our respective pistols the same day (more or less) in case one of us has a problem. I can see if it was a C&R firearm and he never dealt with me before and was shipping directly to me, but is there no trust amongst dealers?

    It makes me wonder if car dealerships are like that. You're at dealer 1, but dealer 2 has the red one. They make a call, but dealer 2 won't hold the car so dealer 1 can send someone to pick it up without payment up front. It seems odd.


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    Member Array TaterSalad's Avatar
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    I don't think it's anything against you, or anything firearm related. This guy probably is just shell-shocked from a bad burn burn on Ebay or something similar.

    Or, perhaps he is a new FFL and doesn't have a lot of experience dealing with others in the gun community...
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Yeah, maybe.
    I suppose I feel business' should treat each other differently. He should have had no problem shipping it to another FFL, especially after I had emailed him my C&R in good faith that has a copy of my driver's license on it.
    If I get his pistol and something is wrong with it he will have had to sign mine into his books already. Let alone me trusting him to store it for three days and not let anything happen to it in case he has to send it back (to my FFL I imagine).
    I should not have assumed a trade would be any different than a cash sale, but I did.

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    I can only offer my 2 cents. I am an 01 FFL Dealer. I probably would have tried to work out any coordination details in advance.

    Most FFL Dealers treat 03 C&R's pretty much the same as any other customer. An 03 C&R license is NOT a dealer license. BATFE issues you your license and but they do not publish C&R lists. Some FFL dealers who sell C&R firearms will insist on an FFL dealer transfer regardless of your C&R license.

    It appears the dealer you traded with did not accept your license on good faith alone. It's actually smart business on the part of the dealer under the circumstances you describe. Once the pistol leaves his shop, he doesn't really want it back. He doesn't know you from Jack so waiting for your pistol is his insurance. Nothing personal, just business.
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply, Sig.
    I sent him my C&R simply to give him more information than he needed. All he really needed was a copy of my driver's license. The pistol I am trading for has to ship to an FFL 01 for transfer like stated. That is why I don't understand where the lack of trust comes from unless there is that much lack of rust between FFL 01 dealers. It would seem to me that it would be easy to get someone's license yanked if he (or you) sent a pistol to another shop and that pistol disappeared without payment being received. You could report it to an agent and have him see if it was ever logged in. You could cause all sorts of problems, couldn't you?

    This is a trade based on each of us accepting the description and pics given of each others' pistols. I just don't understand why I should have to wait to receive my end. Not with it going to a gun shop. But he is the store and I'm just a buyer I guess.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Consider the receipt of your pistol as payment received, at which point merchandise can be delivered to you. The gun business isn't a gas station. Pay before you pump. You send your pistol, he gets it, matches with the description you gave, he sends his pistol to your local FFL for transfer. Done. Pretty standard practice.
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Consider the receipt of your pistol as payment received, at which point merchandise can be delivered to you. The gun business isn't a gas station. Pay before you pump. You send your pistol, he gets it, matches with the description you gave, he sends his pistol to your local FFL for transfer. Done. Pretty standard practice.
    That is exactly how I would expect a cash sale to work.
    I just don't see it in a trade. Not when each of us has to approve the other's offerings.
    But like I said in my OP, I should have worked that detail out before shipping him my pistol. At least it would have made waiting easier knowing what to expect. I feel more comfortable having cash in his hands and waiting than I do one of my pistols. I've seen the way some shops load their safes up at night.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    That is exactly how I would expect a cash sale to work.
    I just don't see it in a trade.
    In this case, your pistol is in lieu of cash.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Good point.

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    Member Array Romans5.8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Consider the receipt of your pistol as payment received, at which point merchandise can be delivered to you. The gun business isn't a gas station. Pay before you pump. You send your pistol, he gets it, matches with the description you gave, he sends his pistol to your local FFL for transfer. Done. Pretty standard practice.
    Bingo. I sell stuff online all the time and until the money is deposited into my bank, nothing ships. PayPal or cash only. Once in a while I've made an exception selling to forum folks I knew who were older and were doing good just to get on an internet forum and wanted to mail me a check. But even then I waited for it to clear before shipping. (And yes, after clearing checks can still be recalled; so there is an element of trust there).

    So if I was making a trade it would be no different. If you're the one making the trade offer; that makes me the 'seller'. When your 'payment' arrives I'll send my 'merchandise'.

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