The ATF is killing me...

This is a discussion on The ATF is killing me... within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The ATF is doing their best to kill the NFA business. First, they came out with a "E-Form" an online way to do forms that ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61
Like Tree131Likes

Thread: The ATF is killing me...

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,872

    The ATF is killing me...

    The ATF is doing their best to kill the NFA business.

    First, they came out with a "E-Form" an online way to do forms that was supposed to take 3 weeks for dealer transfers. That website must have been created by the same fools that created the Obamacare website...you know the one that didn't work.

    It was so hosed up that they took it offline... "indefinitely" is what they said. Now, even the paper forms are ridiculously slow.

    Fact...
    when I started doing this 5 years ago, Dealer to Dealer transfers were running anywhere from 3-5 weeks.

    Now...
    Dealer No. 1... I have a few dozen suppressors going on 10 months waiting for the Form 3 to be approved.
    Dealer No. 2 ... 9 months.
    Dealer No. 3... 7 months.

    Most of these suppressors have been paid for. What other business must pay for a product and wait so long? Ten months for a dealer transfer and then 10 months for a Form 4 approval.

    I've been told from a few friends of mine that work in D.C. that this is purely political, that the tyrants in charge are hoping that if it takes two years just to get an NFA item that people will lose interest.

    Obama publicly stated that there are "other ways" to enact gun control to get around the fact that Congress was getting it passed like he wanted it too.

    And the thing is, its not just me, but other dealers also are experiencing extremely long delays.

    I think I could sell a bunch if I could just get the things.

    Registration sucks. Gun Control sucks. Obama appointees in charge of Federal Agencies suck. Only tyrants worry about guns and who owns them.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array sideKahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    169
    This isn't inefficiency, it's purposeful.
    It isn’t the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

  4. #3
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 11,650'
    Posts
    12,417
    I feel for you. The career bureaucrats, who typically run slow and absolutely according to every dotted i and every crossed t ad infinitum, have been given free run to make it as slow and as laborious as possible from the political appointees to which they ultimately report.

    It is Franz Kafka's Trial for sure.

    They are doing the same thing in every part of the economy too, you just happen to be in a sector they despise, so you get it the worst. Maybe worse than the coal industry.

    If you doubt of what I speak, look at Rahm Immanuels plan to regulate FFL's out of business in Chicago.

    I feel for you. Unfortunately, it may get worse before it gets better.

    Build up your cash/gold/silver/ammo reserves, my friend.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bob from Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,632
    Sad state of affairs in this Country. The NFA Branch has gone downhill since 1986. The current logic is to get your money, and make you wait, and wiat, and wait.
    NOW... Imagine if they ever decided to enact this same type of mentality to simple gun purchases? I'm sure it's already been thought of..
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,045
    I am on my eigth month for a rimfire can that is paid for.
    The administration and the ATF may be interested to know that the lack of the federally controlled item does not hinder the firearms from working.
    Ghost1958 and Christopher67 like this.
    The easy way is always mined.

  7. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,486
    I am waiting for the common man to get feed up with our bloated bureaucracy.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  8. #7
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,872
    I'm common and I'm fed up.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Charlotte area of North Carolina
    Posts
    2,069
    Just let's see what is going to be tried after the mid term elections are over.
    CLASS3NH likes this.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  10. #9
    VIP Member
    Array Pistology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South Coast LA Cty
    Posts
    2,055
    What hasn't been tried? I would remind that one Edward Snowden found enough misdeeds to run to Russia from the secret police. Welcome to the United States of Alice in Wonderland.
    CIBMike likes this.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,292
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The ATF is doing their best to kill the NFA business.

    First, they came out with a "E-Form" an online way to do forms that was supposed to take 3 weeks for dealer transfers. That website must have been created by the same fools that created the Obamacare website...you know the one that didn't work.

    It was so hosed up that they took it offline... "indefinitely" is what they said. Now, even the paper forms are ridiculously slow.

    Fact...
    when I started doing this 5 years ago, Dealer to Dealer transfers were running anywhere from 3-5 weeks.

    Now...
    Dealer No. 1... I have a few dozen suppressors going on 10 months waiting for the Form 3 to be approved.
    Dealer No. 2 ... 9 months.
    Dealer No. 3... 7 months.

    Most of these suppressors have been paid for. What other business must pay for a product and wait so long? Ten months for a dealer transfer and then 10 months for a Form 4 approval.

    I've been told from a few friends of mine that work in D.C. that this is purely political, that the tyrants in charge are hoping that if it takes two years just to get an NFA item that people will lose interest.

    Obama publicly stated that there are "other ways" to enact gun control to get around the fact that Congress was getting it passed like he wanted it too.

    And the thing is, its not just me, but other dealers also are experiencing extremely long delays.

    I think I could sell a bunch if I could just get the things.

    Registration sucks. Gun Control sucks. Obama appointees in charge of Federal Agencies suck. Only tyrants worry about guns and who owns them.
    I'm also of the opinion that Obama is using Exec Power with ATF through AG Eric Holder, same as he did to Politicalize the IRS. I don't deal any NFA but I think we are all being jerked around by this administration. My current beef is shortages of ammo. I have plenty of AR's and AK's chambered in .22LR. They would be selling better I'm sure if enough ammo was available.

    About the only thing I can say is REMEMBER to VOTE Hope your situation improves. A call to ATF wouldn't hurt either. They will tell you how under staffed they are but might just bump you to the top if your lucky. Good Luck!
    Last edited by SIGP250; June 10th, 2014 at 05:35 AM.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    About the only thing I can say is REMEMBER to VOTE
    Vote for whom/ Last I checked nobody is standing up for getting rid of the ATF and getting the Feds out of the gun business, which is what I would "vote" for in a NY Minute.

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,657
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The ATF is doing their best to kill the NFA business.

    First, they came out with a "E-Form" an online way to do forms that was supposed to take 3 weeks for dealer transfers. That website must have been created by the same fools that created the Obamacare website...you know the one that didn't work.

    It was so hosed up that they took it offline... "indefinitely" is what they said. Now, even the paper forms are ridiculously slow.

    Fact...
    when I started doing this 5 years ago, Dealer to Dealer transfers were running anywhere from 3-5 weeks.

    Now...
    Dealer No. 1... I have a few dozen suppressors going on 10 months waiting for the Form 3 to be approved.
    Dealer No. 2 ... 9 months.
    Dealer No. 3... 7 months.

    Most of these suppressors have been paid for. What other business must pay for a product and wait so long? Ten months for a dealer transfer and then 10 months for a Form 4 approval.

    I've been told from a few friends of mine that work in D.C. that this is purely political, that the tyrants in charge are hoping that if it takes two years just to get an NFA item that people will lose interest.

    Obama publicly stated that there are "other ways" to enact gun control to get around the fact that Congress was getting it passed like he wanted it too.

    And the thing is, its not just me, but other dealers also are experiencing extremely long delays.

    I think I could sell a bunch if I could just get the things.

    Registration sucks. Gun Control sucks. Obama appointees in charge of Federal Agencies suck. Only tyrants worry about guns and who owns them.
    Yes, it is purely political.

    It is what happens when there is a 10% across the board Sequester. It is what happens when Congress
    refuses to appropriate adequate funds for an organization to get its work done; I don't care which organization. If Congress refuses to
    appropriate the money, the citizens who rely on the services of that Agency will suffer.

    Congress cut the OMB budget. Result, a routine question about my retirement account had a 72 minute hold time and the on-line e-mail response
    robot said I'd get an answer in 30-60 business days. Duh. OMB was targeted by Congress.

    I don't know what part of the VA mess if any has been caused by The Sequester, or by refusal to fund positions, but that is what happens when
    you have a Congress that wants small government. Stuff doesn't work. It makes government look bad. More funds get cut, and less stuff works. It becomes
    a vicious cycle.

    I'm sure you won't be one who calls your Congressman to demand that adequate funds be appropriated for ATF to do its job and get is NFA forms
    processed in 10 days.

    Many here won't make that call for you either.

    As for websites which don't work, that happens plenty of times to smaller private businesses. Many of them hire incompetent web service companies and sometimes they just forget to pay the domain fee. As usual, you get what you pay for in the end, and hiring the lowest bidder or the best connected thief-of-an-IT contractor doesn't get the job done.

    Your frustration is well understood and I'm sympathetic to it, and I fully agree that the fault is political. I don't think it is political in quite the same way you
    are thinking. I don't think it is a deliberately anti-gun dealer screw up. It is just the fall out from a deep recession and austerity spending on domestic
    programs.
    CLASS3NH likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,657
    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I am waiting for the common man to get feed up with our bloated bureaucracy.
    The long wait is not due to a bloated bureaucracy. It is due to one so underfunded it can't get the job done.

    Think about The Sequester, which was a 10% across the board cut. OF course an Agency such as ATF is going to prioritize their
    broad cut to keep the LE arm going at the expense of the paper pushing, if need be. What else would anyone expect them to do?
    pgrass101 likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array welder516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Crab State if i could leave i would
    Posts
    3,218
    Me Thinks this is an attempt at getting business to fold up from frustration . They can get four or five ( or more ) this way . Less places to buy stuff more expensive it cost and then less people buy .

    Kinda like the ammo .
    Ghost1958 and Christopher67 like this.
    Member of the NRA
    {A}RMS discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them
    1775 Thomas Paine
    Not afraid to live & Not afraid to die .

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The long wait is not due to a bloated bureaucracy. It is due to one so underfunded it can't get the job done.

    Think about The Sequester, which was a 10% across the board cut. OF course an Agency such as ATF is going to prioritize their
    broad cut to keep the LE arm going at the expense of the paper pushing, if need be. What else would anyone expect them to do?
    I still like the idea of getting rid of thr ATF as the correct solution more.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •