'Physical address' vs 'maintain a domicile' to purchase a gun?

This is a discussion on 'Physical address' vs 'maintain a domicile' to purchase a gun? within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I went to Cabella's yesterday to trade a gun and put it towards a Sig p320. After arranging the trade, finishing form 4473, picking out ...

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Thread: 'Physical address' vs 'maintain a domicile' to purchase a gun?

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    Member Array nangpa's Avatar
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    'Physical address' vs 'maintain a domicile' to purchase a gun?

    I went to Cabella's yesterday to trade a gun and put it towards a Sig p320. After arranging the trade, finishing form 4473, picking out a new holster and a couple hundred rounds of 9mm, all that was left was for a manager to double check the paperwork, swipe my debt card and I would be out the door.

    The manager refused the sale because she didn't like the address on my driver's license.

    I've been a 'traveler' for years due to my job, I do not maintain a domicile; ie I do not have a regular apartment or house to which I return every day. The address on my driver's licence, the address on my carry permits, fishing permits, car registration...literally everything...is a UPS store in my home city where I receive mail.

    The Cabella's manager claimed that the ATF requires me to report where they can physically go to find me, where to send a cop if they need to. So firstly, no such place exists. Where I sleep and do laundry will change weekly. Secondly, having don my own research on this, I can find no such requirement from the ATF. The ATF requires that I show the FFL a valid ID and have a current physical address, which I do have and did show. I can find nothing from the ATF stating they require a gun purchaser to 'maintain a domicile'.

    My local DMV has many licensed drivers who are travelers or RV'ers and use a UPS store, RV park office or similar place as their 'physical address'. DMV requires, in addition to the usual 2 pieces of mail, a notarized affidavit of residency, in order to list such an address on an ID or license. I've bought, sold and pawned several guns since obtaining my present UPS store address and this has never been a problem. While I would like to believe the Cabella's manager was simply misinformed, this has me worried.

    Any information you have on this issue would be most helpful.
    Last edited by HotGuns; July 15th, 2015 at 06:04 PM.

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    Whether it's a true legal transaction or not, I'm sure they have the right to deny the sale over that sort of discrepancy. With your circumstances, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. I wold check with whatever store you want to use before beginning the process.
    I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm saying remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nangpa View Post
    ... refused the sale because she didn't like the address on my driver's license.

    The address on my driver's licence, the address on (literally everything) is a UPS store in my home city where I receive mail.
    What I've done in the past is to list the full physical address of the facility. For example:

    Don't use this: John Q. Public, POB XYZ, Anywhere, USA
    Use this: John Q. Public, 1234 Main Street #XYZ, Anywhere, USA

    That way, the casual glance almost invariably results in the assumption it's an apartment, not a POB. Sidesteps lots of the silliness you might otherwise have. BTDT, myself, and it works quite nicely for boosting the signal:noise ratio.
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    You know the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?
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    "Domicile" is a different concept from "residency." Domicile is mostly a matter of intent. When I left AL, for example, I always intended to return here, so, although I resided in NYC and other places, AL remained my domicile, no matter my state of residency. I have a couple of clients overseas, one in China, another in New Zealand. In each case, it's important that they maintain a domicile in the US. Now, is it certain that they'll return to Huntsville, AL - probably doubtful. However "intent" is difficult to ascertain. I think, that if I were in your situation, I would tend to name my hometown and, if pressed for a street address, just use the house (or one of them, if more) I grew up in. If questioned, I'd just say that there was what I intended to do, eventually. BTW, all of the domicile cases revolve around the state of domicile, not a particular street address. OTOH, if you have another "favorite" state you've lived in and where you intend to return to for retirement, you could use that. I'm like some of the replies above - I don't think "domicile" is really what the government is interested in, anyway. They really just want your place of residence where they can find you. For most, that's the same. For you, obviously, it's not, just as it's not for many RVers, etc. All this said, remember that net legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it...
    rdunawaytx likes this.

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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    huh, the only thing I have to offer is when I actually got an agent of the BATFE on the phone regarding a question I had about my NFA Suppressor.
    since you are supposed to fill out a form to notify BATFE-NFA whenever you move addresses. and the wife and I were considering doing the mobile RV thing for awhile and I wanted to know exactly how "mother" wanted me to handle this. So I called a branch office.

    The guy I talked to, Field Agent So-and-So, acted like he just didn't care. He said to do what I pleased, and when I did move back into a permanent residence to then send in the form letting mom know where I was. I recorded that phone call. ...and then never went RV'ing.

    so I'm not much help....
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    If it looks shady a lot of times the ffl will just deny the transaction to avoid possible legal trouble. I once watched someone of Amish type try to buy a handgun. His identification had no picture on it so they denied the sale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    What I've done in the past is to list the full physical address of the facility. For example:

    Don't use this: John Q. Public, POB XYZ, Anywhere, USA
    Use this: John Q. Public, 1234 Main Street #XYZ, Anywhere, USA

    That way, the casual glance almost invariably results in the assumption it's an apartment, not a POB. Sidesteps lots of the silliness you might otherwise have. BTDT, myself, and it works quite nicely for boosting the signal:noise ratio.
    I don't have a PO box. My UPS adress, the adress on my license, is the adress of the store, a normal looking adress.

    The manager had Googled the adress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TIDEHSV View Post
    "Domicile" is a different concept from "residency." Domicile is mostly a matter of intent. When I left AL, for example, I always intended to return here, so, although I resided in NYC and other places, AL remained my domicile, no matter my state of residency. I have a couple of clients overseas, one in China, another in New Zealand. In each case, it's important that they maintain a domicile in the US. Now, is it certain that they'll return to Huntsville, AL - probably doubtful. However "intent" is difficult to ascertain. I think, that if I were in your situation, I would tend to name my hometown and, if pressed for a street address, just use the house (or one of them, if more) I grew up in. If questioned, I'd just say that there was what I intended to do, eventually. BTW, all of the domicile cases revolve around the state of domicile, not a particular street address. OTOH, if you have another "favorite" state you've lived in and where you intend to return to for retirement, you could use that. I'm like some of the replies above - I don't think "domicile" is really what the government is interested in, anyway. They really just want your place of residence where they can find you. For most, that's the same. For you, obviously, it's not, just as it's not for many RVers, etc. All this said, remember that net legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it...
    DMV requires 2 pieces of mail from the adress you claim. I don't think I would want to monitor someone else's mail just to get my 2 pieces. In fact I'm not sure that's even legal.
    CLASS3NH likes this.

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    Member Array nangpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusIV View Post
    "Perches" a gun ???
    If I showed you some of the "corrections" KitKat keeps trying to insert you would lose your mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nangpa View Post
    If I showed you some of the "corrections" KitKat keeps trying to insert you would lose your mind.
    OK, NOW I get it ! I get enough hell from Jelly Bean.
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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nangpa View Post
    I don't have a PO box. My UPS adress, the adress on my license, is the adress of the store, a normal looking adress.

    The manager had Googled the adress.
    oh, so basically he was a nosy jerk who should have kept his own business to himself. sounds like he's an Anti in disguise, trying to impose "sensible" restrictions all on his lonesome. he should go work for starbucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nangpa View Post
    I don't have a PO box. My UPS adress, the adress on my license, is the adress of the store, a normal looking adress.
    Hm. So you're already using the full facility address ... and they're still giving you grief. Don't know what to say, then.

    (I understood you don't have a POB. But the complaint was that you did, essentially, that it was a box for mail and not where you lived.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    That's an odd situation. I wonder who he is getting paid kickbacks from...

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    Distinguished Member Array TIDEHSV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nangpa View Post
    DMV requires 2 pieces of mail from the adress you claim. I don't think I would want to monitor someone else's mail just to get my 2 pieces. In fact I'm not sure that's even legal.
    Whose DMV are you referring to?
    CLASS3NH likes this.

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