Printable View
as is your bringing politics not having to do with guns or carrying of guns into so many threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
it is people who keep trying to silence those who don't share thier opinions who are the "useful idiots" that the charlatan in the white depends on to help spread the coming tyranny
I have never ever started a political thread. I don't ignore them.Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy
When you make statements such as what you posted above (16) which I put in bold, is that not a blatant partisan posting to say nothing of being highly disrespectful of our system of governance and those who hold high office?
Talk all you want about rebellion, if the mods want to let you do so, but don't expect that doing so furthers the image of
gun owners as decent law abiding citizens in the minds of others who read this forum, and don't mistakenly believe that such would in any way be lawful, or justifiable by today's circumstances.
There is no right of rebellion in any of our laws; never has been, and no functioning government would ever tolerate such, nor should it.
I'll weigh in on the debate over my own comments. I think I framed my esteem for the Bill of Rights properly. That was the context under which the amendments were construed. I haven't advocated anything except for a regard for that made the USA so great. There is, as in not a matter of debate nor opinion, I assert, a complete disconnection with everything that is worth feeling nationalistic pride in. Laws and Rights are opposites. Rights are inherent, while laws define that which is granted and that which is prohibited. Human beings have the RIGHT to live in a state of freedom from coercive force. And when this country guaranteed future generations that inherent rights were to be protected to the highest standard of law, a revolution in human development was unleashed. The relevance this has to the OP is in pointing out the COUNTERREVOLUTION against inherent rights. I think this semantical argument illustrates it best. There is a calculated effort world wide, through education and every other method of subversion, to assert state preeminence over every aspect of human life. Every communistic, socialistic, "people's" revolution in history has only served to empower the ruling oligarchy and further subjugate the masses... So, YES! Let's get back to the American system of freedom. Let's take up self ownership and defend our persons to the extent of our ability. Let's speak freely and defend others' speech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
Rebellion in its self is not illegal. HOW you rebel is the key to whether it is breaking the law or not.
Mr. Avis, you wrote this in an earlier post: " lest we revolt." You used that R word.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterAvis
Here is a dictionary definition of the word:
"1.to break away from or rise against constituted authority, as by open rebellion; cast off allegiance or subjection to those in authority; rebel; mutiny: to revolt against the present government. " Revolt | Define Revolt at Dictionary.com
In the context of a gun forum, we have to be very very careful about how we use certain words, IMO.
The R words, revolt and revolution, need to be used with exquisite caution on a gun forum lest we damage our collectiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Spirit51
interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
heed your own words!! you are the one who accuses people of sedition and treason in an open forum, charges likes that are unfounded, scurrilous and could get a person who carries a weapon legally in trouble with issuing authorities. I would be happy if you took your own advice and kept some of your more radical non weapon related opinions to yourself
Thanks I know I am spot on, the obuma sycophants want to foist their version of the truth onto the unknowing sheeple, it is the duty of all true Americans to keep the charlatans in power somewhat honestQuote:
Originally Posted by GunGeezer
you need to heed your own words because you might be confused with a hypocrite, accusing people of being treasonous in an open forum like this one may not work out too wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
I would agree that there is no right of rebellion in our laws. That being said, the key here is a functioning government. IMHO the many challenges, overrides, ways around and complete contradictions of our Constitution by those, so called elected representatives, including one who, I believe is not even Constitutionally qualified to be elected to his office, proves that we no longer have a functioning government, of the people, by the people and for the people. While I'm not in any way suggesting armed rebellion, I believe we are traveling down a dangerous political path that will eventually lead to the type of country and leadership our founding fathers pledged their lives and their fortunes to fight against. We need to use the system they put in place to take back our government and our country. If the majority refuses to acknowledge this and chooses more intrusive and bigger government then God help us all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
I think what I put in bold is an excessively pessimistic view of our present circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by GunGeezer
There have always been unhappy disaffected people within our society. Almost always they mistakenly believe
their view represents where the majority is.
We have constitutional governance. There is ability to amend it. Don't mistake the inability of various relatively
small groups to get their way on one issue or another, or the extreme complexity of a government for 300,000,000 + people,
in a world with about 180 other countries, with tyranny. Don't mistake specific incidents of unfortunate happenings for
broad public policy. Life isn't simple. There aren't any simple solutions to our complex
National policies. Not for the economy, not for security, not for education, not for any topic you might think of. The constitution
leaves ample room for the various elected authorities and appointed authorities to hammer out solutions which offer
the greatest good for the greatest number of us.
Ouch. Flagrant appeal to popularity.
I do not believe my view, for instance, represents the view of the majority. The view of the majority is a vacant space both in front of and behind the eyes. :yup:
A republican (no, not the political party) system of government is not designed to offer the greatest good for the greatest number. It is designed to protect the minority from the majority. And our republican system was designed with the specific intent to protect the minority from itself.
When I believe that our system of government is failing to serve the purpose for which it was constructed, I search for empirical evidence to support that belief. The evidence is abundant.
If I am standing in a room with 5,000 people and 4,999 disagree with my beliefs because I am a poopey-head or because 4,999 people just can't be wrong, I am not going to start believing as they do until I see that our system is succeeding in protecting the minority from itself.
If the violation of law by our government was a rare occurrence, and I was a person prone to normalcy bias, I could accept that government was still operating within it's constructs, and that progress was being made. But an utter disregard for the law is the new norm in government, The rule, not the exception.
I think this is relevant to this forum because the evidence shows that when government is no longer bound by the checks of law, or when government simply writes itself exceptions to violate the rule of law, you can start kissing those amendments good bye.
I got in on this conversation because I agree with the implication of the OP. Chicago is a top to bottom example of out of control government. The state body is using their unmitigated power to press a political agenda, and abusing their position of authority over children to achieve their ends by incrementalism. In other words, when the SCOTUS shoots down your city's illegal gun ban, you can still virtually achieve the effect of a gun ban by indoctrinating a new generation to believe that guns are the cause of violence and to self-regulate toward your own political goals. Another example of using the bureaucracy, in this case the school system, to achieve ends that an elected office could not.
no, ouch, straight from the marxist revolutionist playbook, his is the mantra of the progressive leftist movements of europe, something the charlatan who is possibly occupying the white house illegitimately is working diligently to foist upon usQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterAvis
our nation was not created to provide for the greater good, that is what socialist systems tried and have failed to attain, the reality is that here historically in the USA the attainment of health wealth and happiness is up to the INDIVIDUAL, it is not the GOVERNMENT's job to be providing anything for the common good!
Political Power/Control: Those that have want more. Those that dont have want to take from those that do by whatever means possible. Life goes on.
Vote for the least evil if you can detect an appreciable difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopyard
Chicago has a lot of problems, not just their communist stance on RKBA.
It's also one of the most corrupt cities in the U.S.