Stop it now before it spreads

This is a discussion on Stop it now before it spreads within the Forum News, Feedback, Problems & Comments forums, part of the DefensiveCarry.com Forum Office category; Originally Posted by Hopyard And btw, advocating breaking the law--which rebellion would be-- is a violation of forum rules. as is your bringing politics not ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
Like Tree36Likes

Thread: Stop it now before it spreads

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    And btw, advocating breaking the law--which rebellion would be-- is a violation of forum rules.
    as is your bringing politics not having to do with guns or carrying of guns into so many threads.

    it is people who keep trying to silence those who don't share thier opinions who are the "useful idiots" that the charlatan in the white depends on to help spread the coming tyranny
    Spirit51 likes this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,595
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    as is your bringing politics not having to do with guns or carrying of guns into so many threads.

    it is people who keep trying to silence those who don't share thier opinions who are the "useful idiots" that the charlatan in the white depends on to help spread the coming tyranny
    I have never ever started a political thread. I don't ignore them.

    When you make statements such as what you posted above (16) which I put in bold, is that not a blatant partisan posting to say nothing of being highly disrespectful of our system of governance and those who hold high office?

    Talk all you want about rebellion, if the mods want to let you do so, but don't expect that doing so furthers the image of
    gun owners as decent law abiding citizens in the minds of others who read this forum, and don't mistakenly believe that such would in any way be lawful, or justifiable by today's circumstances.

    There is no right of rebellion in any of our laws; never has been, and no functioning government would ever tolerate such, nor should it.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  4. #18
    Member Array MisterAvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bible Belt
    Posts
    224
    I'll weigh in on the debate over my own comments. I think I framed my esteem for the Bill of Rights properly. That was the context under which the amendments were construed. I haven't advocated anything except for a regard for that made the USA so great. There is, as in not a matter of debate nor opinion, I assert, a complete disconnection with everything that is worth feeling nationalistic pride in. Laws and Rights are opposites. Rights are inherent, while laws define that which is granted and that which is prohibited. Human beings have the RIGHT to live in a state of freedom from coercive force. And when this country guaranteed future generations that inherent rights were to be protected to the highest standard of law, a revolution in human development was unleashed. The relevance this has to the OP is in pointing out the COUNTERREVOLUTION against inherent rights. I think this semantical argument illustrates it best. There is a calculated effort world wide, through education and every other method of subversion, to assert state preeminence over every aspect of human life. Every communistic, socialistic, "people's" revolution in history has only served to empower the ruling oligarchy and further subjugate the masses... So, YES! Let's get back to the American system of freedom. Let's take up self ownership and defend our persons to the extent of our ability. Let's speak freely and defend others' speech.
    Spirit51, beararms and GunGeezer like this.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Obligatory Founding Father Quote

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is neither cause for rebellion nor a right to rebel. That is long settled, and was settled long before the civil war,
    in both the Washington and the Adams administration.

    Keep talking like that and I'm sure someone will reserve a spot for you at Supermax.

    And btw, advocating breaking the law--which rebellion would be-- is a violation of forum rules.

    Rebellion in its self is not illegal. HOW you rebel is the key to whether it is breaking the law or not.
    drkangl6 likes this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  6. #20
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,595
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterAvis View Post
    I'll weigh in on the debate over my own comments. I think I framed my esteem for the Bill of Rights properly. That was the context under which the amendments were construed. I haven't advocated anything except for a regard for that made the USA so great. There is, as in not a matter of debate nor opinion, I assert, a complete disconnection with everything that is worth feeling nationalistic pride in. Laws and Rights are opposites. Rights are inherent, while laws define that which is granted and that which is prohibited. Human beings have the RIGHT to live in a state of freedom from coercive force. And when this country guaranteed future generations that inherent rights were to be protected to the highest standard of law, a revolution in human development was unleashed. The relevance this has to the OP is in pointing out the COUNTERREVOLUTION against inherent rights. I think this semantical argument illustrates it best. There is a calculated effort world wide, through education and every other method of subversion, to assert state preeminence over every aspect of human life. Every communistic, socialistic, "people's" revolution in history has only served to empower the ruling oligarchy and further subjugate the masses... So, YES! Let's get back to the American system of freedom. Let's take up self ownership and defend our persons to the extent of our ability. Let's speak freely and defend others' speech.
    Mr. Avis, you wrote this in an earlier post: " lest we revolt." You used that R word.
    Here is a dictionary definition of the word:

    "1.to break away from or rise against constituted authority, as by open rebellion; cast off allegiance or subjection to those in authority; rebel; mutiny: to revolt against the present government. " Revolt | Define Revolt at Dictionary.com

    In the context of a gun forum, we have to be very very careful about how we use certain words, IMO.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #21
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Rebellion in its self is not illegal. HOW you rebel is the key to whether it is breaking the law or not.
    The R words, revolt and revolution, need to be used with exquisite caution on a gun forum lest we damage our collective
    interests.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Mr. Avis, you wrote this in an earlier post: " lest we revolt." You used that R word.
    Here is a dictionary definition of the word:

    "1.to break away from or rise against constituted authority, as by open rebellion; cast off allegiance or subjection to those in authority; rebel; mutiny: to revolt against the present government. " Revolt | Define Revolt at Dictionary.com

    In the context of a gun forum, we have to be very very careful about how we use certain words, IMO.

    heed your own words!! you are the one who accuses people of sedition and treason in an open forum, charges likes that are unfounded, scurrilous and could get a person who carries a weapon legally in trouble with issuing authorities. I would be happy if you took your own advice and kept some of your more radical non weapon related opinions to yourself
    Spirit51 likes this.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    You are spot on. I was living in Chicago in 1968 and Hishonor didn't give a whit about the demonstrators or what they were demonstrating about. He was concerned that by disrupting the convention they were challenging his power and nobody got away with that.
    Thanks I know I am spot on, the obuma sycophants want to foist their version of the truth onto the unknowing sheeple, it is the duty of all true Americans to keep the charlatans in power somewhat honest
    Spirit51 likes this.

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The R words, revolt and revolution, need to be used with exquisite caution on a gun forum lest we damage our collective
    interests.
    you need to heed your own words because you might be confused with a hypocrite, accusing people of being treasonous in an open forum like this one may not work out too well
    Spirit51 likes this.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I have never ever started a political thread. I don't ignore them.

    When you make statements such as what you posted above (16) which I put in bold, is that not a blatant partisan posting to say nothing of being highly disrespectful of our system of governance and those who hold high office?

    Talk all you want about rebellion, if the mods want to let you do so, but don't expect that doing so furthers the image of
    gun owners as decent law abiding citizens in the minds of others who read this forum, and don't mistakenly believe that such would in any way be lawful, or justifiable by today's circumstances.

    There is no right of rebellion in any of our laws; never has been, and no functioning government would ever tolerate such, nor should it.
    I would agree that there is no right of rebellion in our laws. That being said, the key here is a functioning government. IMHO the many challenges, overrides, ways around and complete contradictions of our Constitution by those, so called elected representatives, including one who, I believe is not even Constitutionally qualified to be elected to his office, proves that we no longer have a functioning government, of the people, by the people and for the people. While I'm not in any way suggesting armed rebellion, I believe we are traveling down a dangerous political path that will eventually lead to the type of country and leadership our founding fathers pledged their lives and their fortunes to fight against. We need to use the system they put in place to take back our government and our country. If the majority refuses to acknowledge this and chooses more intrusive and bigger government then God help us all!

  12. #26
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,595
    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    I would agree that there is no right of rebellion in our laws. That being said, the key here is a functioning government. IMHO the many challenges, overrides, ways around and complete contradictions of our Constitution by those, so called elected representatives, including one who, I believe is not even Constitutionally qualified to be elected to his office, proves that we no longer have a functioning government, of the people, by the people and for the people. While I'm not in any way suggesting armed rebellion, I believe we are traveling down a dangerous political path that will eventually lead to the type of country and leadership our founding fathers pledged their lives and their fortunes to fight against. We need to use the system they put in place to take back our government and our country. If the majority refuses to acknowledge this and chooses more intrusive and bigger government then God help us all!
    I think what I put in bold is an excessively pessimistic view of our present circumstances.
    There have always been unhappy disaffected people within our society. Almost always they mistakenly believe
    their view represents where the majority is.

    We have constitutional governance. There is ability to amend it. Don't mistake the inability of various relatively
    small groups to get their way on one issue or another, or the extreme complexity of a government for 300,000,000 + people,
    in a world with about 180 other countries, with tyranny. Don't mistake specific incidents of unfortunate happenings for
    broad public policy. Life isn't simple. There aren't any simple solutions to our complex

    National policies. Not for the economy, not for security, not for education, not for any topic you might think of. The constitution
    leaves ample room for the various elected authorities and appointed authorities to hammer out solutions which offer
    the greatest good for the greatest number of us.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #27
    Member Array MisterAvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bible Belt
    Posts
    224
    Ouch. Flagrant appeal to popularity.
    I do not believe my view, for instance, represents the view of the majority. The view of the majority is a vacant space both in front of and behind the eyes.
    A republican (no, not the political party) system of government is not designed to offer the greatest good for the greatest number. It is designed to protect the minority from the majority. And our republican system was designed with the specific intent to protect the minority from itself.

    When I believe that our system of government is failing to serve the purpose for which it was constructed, I search for empirical evidence to support that belief. The evidence is abundant.

    If I am standing in a room with 5,000 people and 4,999 disagree with my beliefs because I am a poopey-head or because 4,999 people just can't be wrong, I am not going to start believing as they do until I see that our system is succeeding in protecting the minority from itself.

    If the violation of law by our government was a rare occurrence, and I was a person prone to normalcy bias, I could accept that government was still operating within it's constructs, and that progress was being made. But an utter disregard for the law is the new norm in government, The rule, not the exception.

    I think this is relevant to this forum because the evidence shows that when government is no longer bound by the checks of law, or when government simply writes itself exceptions to violate the rule of law, you can start kissing those amendments good bye.
    I got in on this conversation because I agree with the implication of the OP. Chicago is a top to bottom example of out of control government. The state body is using their unmitigated power to press a political agenda, and abusing their position of authority over children to achieve their ends by incrementalism. In other words, when the SCOTUS shoots down your city's illegal gun ban, you can still virtually achieve the effect of a gun ban by indoctrinating a new generation to believe that guns are the cause of violence and to self-regulate toward your own political goals. Another example of using the bureaucracy, in this case the school system, to achieve ends that an elected office could not.
    Spirit51 and GunGeezer like this.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Obligatory Founding Father Quote

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterAvis View Post
    Ouch. Flagrant appeal to popularity.
    no, ouch, straight from the marxist revolutionist playbook, his is the mantra of the progressive leftist movements of europe, something the charlatan who is possibly occupying the white house illegitimately is working diligently to foist upon us
    our nation was not created to provide for the greater good, that is what socialist systems tried and have failed to attain, the reality is that here historically in the USA the attainment of health wealth and happiness is up to the INDIVIDUAL, it is not the GOVERNMENT's job to be providing anything for the common good!
    Spirit51 likes this.

  15. #29
    TOF
    TOF is offline
    Member Array TOF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    342
    Political Power/Control: Those that have want more. Those that dont have want to take from those that do by whatever means possible. Life goes on.

    Vote for the least evil if you can detect an appreciable difference.
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Show Me State
    Posts
    2,641
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Really? Did you think that same thing in 1968 when the prior Mayor Daley (Richard Joseph Daley Richard J. Daley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was trying to prevent anti-VN war protesters from disrupting the 1968 National Convention?

    Were you old enough to even know what was going on?

    See, LBJ was prosecuting a "kinda" unpopular war against communism, and there was no national
    leader on either side with a viable plan to bring it to a decent end.

    Whether you think the war was right or wrong or don't care either way, the fact is those you
    complain about as "communist" were pretty darn anti-communist.
    You do know it was Truman who prosecuted another anti-communist war, and which party he belonged to.

    I just don't see how you can make the comment you made. It is outlandish, and smears a whole city.

    So you don't like their gun policy up there. I don't either. That doesn't make the "communist" or anti-American or anything of the
    sort.

    Chicago has a lot of problems, not just their communist stance on RKBA.
    It's also one of the most corrupt cities in the U.S.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

beretta 950 massachusetts legal
,
beretta 950 massachusetts legal, these porch monkeys deserved to die,, toyota sponsors black star project
,
camielle williams gun violence
,
camille williams gun violence
,
countries with tyranny
,

powered by mybb after school program

,
powered by mybb history of television 70s
,
powered by mybb us news and world report best colleges
,
powered by mybb us news and world report law
,
these porch monkeys deserved to die,
,
toyota sponsors black star project
Click on a term to search for related topics.