Need advice.

This is a discussion on Need advice. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well my father-in-law has had Brain cancer, a stroke, couple of seizers barely eats..talks to people that aren't there etc.etc.....in his final stretch. He can't ...

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Thread: Need advice.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Need advice.

    Well my father-in-law has had Brain cancer, a stroke, couple of seizers barely eats..talks to people that aren't there etc.etc.....in his final stretch.

    He can't make any choices, barely talks..that make sense. Just over all in bad shape.

    Well, come to find out he has an assault rifle...yes in the actual term of an assault rifle, hidden in the house we just found. We don't know if he has the proper paper work or anything to make sure it's legal and can't get anything out of him about it.

    I'm not sure what it is I think it's a Stryer? or something like that. Looks like a Ruger mini14 but has a folding stock and a fire select switch. .223 chamber in really good condition.

    Well my mother-n-law needs $$ and wants to sell it. But we don't know how we should go about it. So I come here for some kind of direction. We want to sell it, but make sure we are legal too. TO me she could get in trouble just having it...since we don't know how, where, when he got it.

    Help

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Search the place top to bottom and try to find ATF paperwork for it. Does he have a safety deposit box? If so, check there too.

    If not, you will need to destroy it or turn it in to law enforcement (not sure about that last one, I would honestly be afraid of being sent to jail even if I made a good faith effort to turn it in). Probably best to just destroy it yourself if you can.

    After the guy who was sentenced to prison when his semi-auto broke and went full auto, I don't think it is wise to trust the ATF even if you are acting in 100% good faith. Just destroy it as quickly as possible.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  4. #3
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    Very interesting dilemma!

    On the one hand, if it is an illegally held weapon, (without the proper paperwork) it will be confiscated by authorities as soon as you ask about it.

    Then, you're kind of at their mercy as to if they want to make your life hell just for merely being in possession of it. You can not assume they will be sympathetic just because of your fathers current state of health and mental capacity. (See GWRedDragon's post above)

    Second, if it is a legally possessed weapon, it is my understanding it can only be sold to a class III dealer. The problem is, I'm not sure if you or your mother can legally perform that transaction in proxy for your father. Again, it's a crime to merely possess it if the legal owner is not present and in immediate control of the weapon. He would have to be the one to make the legal transfer to the Class III dealer.

    In any case, I would seek out the assistance of a very capable attorney who specializes in firearms for advice before doing anything! At least he is bound by attorney client privilege and could be the one to research whether it is a legally held weapon or not.

    Good luck!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Are you 100% sure its full auto? If so, what Bark'n said would probably be your best bet. If your family can legally sell this rifle, than it should be worth a pretty penny.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    Is it an AC556? Very nice piece. Select fire mini 14.

    Ruger AC-556 - Automatic Rifle - History, Specifications and Pictures - Infantry Weapons

    Hope your situation turns out well.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Steyr ??? Australian made.

    They made a sub-machine gun in 9mm Modern Firearms - Steyr Stg.77 AUG assault rifle

    and made assault rifles ; this link may help you identify the model, but ... it may be difficult to do ... barrel is a key factor.

    Modern Firearms - Steyr Stg.77 AUG assault rifle

    They made a automatic rifle, light machine gun, 5.56 carbine, and grenade launcher. The carbine I believe... had a semi-auto version, or could be converted to a semi-auto so that it was legal to own. The others are legal to own only if you have a Class 3 license. So, it all depends upon a proper identification of what model the gun is.

    I would see what model it really is and that will tell you a lot, as well as where to go from there. I would sure be checking paperwork on it if at all possible.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    yes, maddy, that's it. Still lookin around for paper work.

  9. #8
    Member Array LeChuck's Avatar
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    Do you have power of attorney? I have no experience with this, but if that's the case I would think you could sell it for him.

  10. #9
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    First, sorry to hear about your father in law.

    If the weapons turns out to be legally owned by your father. He may will it to you or another family member in which case you( they) can possess it and legally sell it.

    In a number of situations, an NFA item may be transferred without a transfer tax. These include sales to government agencies, temporary transfers of an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repairs, and transfer of an NFA firearm to a lawful heir after the death of its owner. A permanent transfer, even if tax-free, must be approved by the ATF. The proper form should be submitted to ATF before the transfer occurs. For example, lawful heirs must submit a Form 5 and wait for approval before taking possession of any NFA item willed to them.

    Machine guns legally registered prior to the date of enactment (i.e. May 1986) are still legal for possession by and transfer among civilians where permitted by state law.

    For now (have your father-in law) secure the firearm in a safe and discreet location.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    IANAL, don't have any tax stamp weapons, but I have looked into it a bit. If it is legit, and the tax stamp is to a trust, he may have named family members in the trust. In which case they can possess it.

    But if no one knew about it, you have to wonder if it was legit. Was it a bring back weapon? Does not change anything, but may explain how he got it.

    Good luck.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  12. #11
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    OK, now the section you don't want to be in..loss of lots of money.

    Section 3.3 Status of unregistered firearms
    Firearms not lawfully registered as required by the NFA may not be registered and legitimized by their possessors. They are contraband and unlawful to possess.

    However, see Section 2.4 for information on removing NFA firearms from the scope of the NFA because of their status as collectors’ items, modification, or elimination of certain component parts.


    2.5.1 Removal of machineguns and silencers from the scope of the NFA. Machineguns are defined to include the receiver of a machinegun and the definition of silencer includes each component of a silencer. Therefore, to remove these weapons from the provisions of the NFA, the receiver of a machinegun or all the components of a silencer must be destroyed.

    The preferred method for destroying a machinegun receiver is to completely sever the receiver in specified locations by means of a cutting torch that displaces at least one-quarter inch of material at each cut location. ATF has published rulings concerning the preferred destruction of specific machineguns. A machinegun receiver may also be properly destroyed by means of saw cutting and disposing of certain removed portions of the receiver. To ensure that the proposed saw cutting of a particular machinegun receiver is acceptable, FTB should be contacted for guidance and approval of any alternative destruction proposal.
    Note: a machinegun receiver that is not properly destroyed may still be classified as a machinegun, particularly in instances where the improperlydestroyed receiver is possessed in conjunction with other component parts for the weapon.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  13. #12
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    If it is legit, and the tax stamp is to a trust, he may have named family members in the trust. In which case they can possess it.
    Actually..

    If its is registered in a corporation, partnership, or association, employees of the corporation may possess it(there are rules here too).

    14.2.2.1 Effect of dissolution of a corporation, partnership, or association. If an FFL
    licensed as a corporation, partnership, or association goes out of business and dissolves (ceases to exist under State law), the firm’s NFA firearms will be considered to have been “transferred” to whomever takes custody of the firearms and possesses them after dissolution. To be lawful, such transfers must be approved in advance by ATF on ATF Forms 4 and are subject to NFA transfer tax.

    Again it must be legal to possess in the first place.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Definitely research it....it could mean some very helpful money to your mother in law, if done properly.
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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    Are you 100% sure its full auto? If so, what Bark'n said would probably be your best bet. If your family can legally sell this rifle, than it should be worth a pretty penny.
    I agree the select fire switch could simply be a single shot mode and not full auto... In the past there have been a number of guns made with a selector that will turn the semi auto into a single shot, at one time it was a standard feature on many early weapons....

    But if it is a full auto.... then dig and dig deep for the paperwork, if it is a legal gun then it is worth thousands to a collector, for if you cannot find the papers well just what is scrap iron going for now????
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  16. #15
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    As far as I know,once that receiver is completely destroyed and disposed of, the rest of the parts are legal to be sold. It's something you would have to discuss with a lawyer that specializes in firearm law if you can not find documents stating that he legally owns the gun.
    Last edited by Phantoms; March 24th, 2010 at 07:57 PM. Reason: fixed a spelling mistake

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