Shipping and Receiving

Shipping and Receiving

This is a discussion on Shipping and Receiving within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As some of you know from my thread on black powder, I am in the process of getting a muzzleloader. There is a gentleman in ...

Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Shipping and Receiving

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    nowhere, usa
    Posts
    713

    Question Shipping and Receiving

    As some of you know from my thread on black powder, I am in the process of getting a muzzleloader. There is a gentleman in Tulsa who has what I want and it just so happens that I have what he wants. He wants to trade me his T/C Renegade muzzleloader for my Remington 597 .22. Only problem is he is about 2,000 miles away! I have to ship it. I think he can ship his muzzleloader to my door without an FFL. Is that correct? I think it falls under the antiques stipulation. However, my firearm that I may send him is not an antique and I have to send it to his FFL. I have never done this before. How do I ship to an FFL?

    Thanks!!


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    11,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    As some of you know from my thread on black powder, I am in the process of getting a muzzleloader. There is a gentleman in Tulsa who has what I want and it just so happens that I have what he wants. He wants to trade me his T/C Renegade muzzleloader for my Remington 597 .22. Only problem is he is about 2,000 miles away! I have to ship it. I think he can ship his muzzleloader to my door without an FFL. Is that correct? I think it falls under the antiques stipulation. However, my firearm that I may send him is not an antique and I have to send it to his FFL. I have never done this before. How do I ship to an FFL?

    Thanks!!
    Private citizens who don't hold FFL's may ship to an FFL dealer (generally including gunsmiths and manufacturers). Handguns must go via UPS or FedEx overnight, but long guns may be shipped via USPS, which is probably your cheapest option. Pack the gun securely, unloaded of course and with no ammo in the box. At the PO, you must identify it as a long gun, but do NOT mark the box in any way to indicate what it is. It is advisable to put the addressee's address and yours inside the box in addition to the outside of the box. Insure it, and specify that adult signature is required at the receiving end.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member
    NROI Chief Range Officer

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    nowhere, usa
    Posts
    713
    ok, but what information do I need from the FFL? What is preventing me from just doing it illegally and shipping it to his front door step? NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD DO THAT!! But what do I have to do with the FFL?

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    11,227
    You have to communicate with the receiving FFL in advance about the firearm being sent and to whom it is being transferred - but your buyer should carry the ball in that regard. If you want to gain a bit more security about the whole transaction, have your buyer fax/email/mail you a copy of the FFL's license, to ensure that you're sending it to a legitimate dealer and the correct address. It's really fairly straightforward.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member
    NROI Chief Range Officer

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    nowhere, usa
    Posts
    713
    Ok! Thanks!!

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    You will need to send the rifle to an FFL holder for transfer. The seller should be able to legally send you the muzzle loader to your door provided it is on the C&R list (curios or relic). Typically the buyer of the rifle should contact an FFL of his choice in advance. There is normally a transfer fee involved that usually ranges between $20-$50. Some FFL dealers are also required to collect State sales tax depending on the state you are sending to. Once this is done the buyer sends you the shipping information. Name, address, zip, & phone number. If it was FFL to FFL each would exchange copies of their licenses. FFL's do not send a copy of their license to an non-licensee. You can verify that he is a valid 01-FFL by going to BATFE website and downloading an excel spread sheet of all current FFL's.
    Sure, you could probably ship direct to the buyer but that is illegal. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If caught, you get more than a slap on the back of your hand. You could be charged with illegal trafficking of a firearm, a federal offense good for up to 5 years and a fine. The buyer could be charged with a Homeland Security violation for avoiding the Brady Bill, the NICS background check, also a Federal offense.

    Before sending the rifle, it is advisable to have an agreement with the seller regarding the terms of sale. Do you allow an inspection period? No returns, etc. If if for any reason the buyer receives an Denied from the NICS background check will you allow the rifle to be returned to you? Who will pay for shipping if the rifle is returned. Once you have an agreement, there should be some type of a bill of sale that is exchanged and signed. Once the rifle is shipped to the FFL, for the buyer, it is exactly the same as if he was buying the rifle as an over the counter sale from the dealer. The buyer fills out part A of ATF Form 4473, the FFL contacts NICS. NICS replies with either Proceed or Denied. The buyer pays the fees and walks out with the rifle or in some states waits whatever the waiting period may be and then returns to pick up the rifle.

    As far as shipping, either firearm can be sent by USPS or Common carrier. If USPS it is advisable to send registered and insured. Since you can not use flat rate shipping (won't fit the flat rate boxes), the least expensive way will almost always be UPS Ground, insured.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  7. #7
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    22,156
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    The seller should be able to legally send you the muzzle loader to your door provided it is on the C&R list (curios or relic).
    There is no C&R requirement on black powder weapons.

    If there was the recipient would have to have a C&R FFL, also check some of the bigger black powder providers and you will find very few shipping restrictions. I know over the years I have received 3 BP firearms via UPS here in Maryland (including two long arms a hand gun) and that was well prior to having my C&R, not to mention the arms were all newly made "reproductions".
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  8. #8
    Member Array kimbershot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    connecticut
    Posts
    39
    black powder--what type of ignition system. ie. thompson center encore = firearm and ffl requirement (barrels interchange and 209 primer in breach--and serial number). generic black powder--no ffl--ship direct via us postal.

    22 rifle--you can ship us postal--must go to ffl. on receiving end--22 goes to ffl and you go through 4473 purchase procedures.

    as mentioned--don't mark box with content info. ship insured with tracking number and if wanted-sig required.

    handguns--ups/fed exp.--can ship as an individual to ffl and must show ffl to shipper clerk at terminal--they go overnight and very expensive.


  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    There is no C&R requirement on black powder weapons.

    If there was the recipient would have to have a C&R FFL, also check some of the bigger black powder providers and you will find very few shipping restrictions. I know over the years I have received 3 BP firearms via UPS here in Maryland (including two long arms a hand gun) and that was well prior to having my C&R, not to mention the arms were all newly made "reproductions".
    I don't deal in in black powder rifles(non-firearms?) but I should have said, provided it is not a firearm or a C&R. You are right though, C&R,s are not exempt from the provisions of the GCA. They have to be transfered to an 01-or 06 FFL. I don't know if any states have laws that might preclude transfer of of a black powder rifle. (non-firearm?) by BATFE definition. I know BATFE doesn't regulate knives or cross bows but some states do. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask just to make sure before sending. I can ship black powder less than 50 lb. with no problem except the Has-mat markings on the shipping box or container and an additional $25.00 has-mat shipping fee. Now that I'm thinking of C&R's, does an 06-FFL have to keep a bound book and transfer on Form 4473?
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by kimbershot View Post
    black powder--what type of ignition system. ie. thompson center encore = firearm and ffl requirement (barrels interchange and 209 primer in breach--and serial number). generic black powder--no ffl--ship direct via us postal.

    22 rifle--you can ship us postal--must go to ffl. on receiving end--22 goes to ffl and you go through 4473 purchase procedures.

    as mentioned--don't mark box with content info. ship insured with tracking number and if wanted-sig required.

    handguns--ups/fed exp.--can ship as an individual to ffl and must show ffl to shipper clerk at terminal--they go overnight and very expensive.

    Just to clarify what you said, a non-licensee does not show a shipper an FFL because he does not have one. If I'm shipping a handgun as an FFL, I can ship common carrier or USPS. When shipping USPS, I'm not required to show an FFL copy. I do require an FFL copy from the FFL I am transferring to before I will ship. I am only required to present a copy of USPS form C, Statement by Shipper of Firearms an am required to retain the form for one year. Flat rate is the way to go. If it fits it ships. Shipping cost in the lower 48 has never exceeded more than $10.20 for a handgun(s). Rifles & shotguns that don't fit go by priority mail. At that point UPS ground is least expensive but FedEx 2-day air is about the same because they discount heavily depending on sales volume.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. ripped off by receiving FFL-options?
    By azleftie88 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: May 9th, 2010, 04:15 PM
  2. How long before receiving CCW permit
    By jjkjr in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: June 4th, 2009, 08:45 PM
  3. Receiving End Of A10 :)
    By Dihappy in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: January 9th, 2008, 09:12 AM

Search tags for this page

atf firearms tracing system muzzle loader
,
can an individual ship a muzzleloader to a non ffl holder in missouri
,
form 4473 for black powder in washington state
,
shipping black powder rifle in tulsa
,
shipping muzzleloader washington
,

shipping muzzleloaders to washington state

,
shipping muzzleloaders wa
,
shipping muzzleloading firearms washington
,

shipping my 22 rifle via us

,
shipping restrictions on muzzleloaders
,
washington state muzzleloader shipping restrictions
,
washington state shipping muzzleloader 2013
Click on a term to search for related topics.