Kids and guns...
This is a discussion on Kids and guns... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; "his boys (6) & (2) are unstoppable when it comes to getting into things"
Sounds like a recipie for disaster to me. Those boys need ...
March 31st, 2010 09:43 AM
"his boys (6) & (2) are unstoppable when it comes to getting into things"
Sounds like a recipie for disaster to me. Those boys need more discipline generally and a lesson in gun safety rules specifically.
If he goes for your gun again, tell him "No!" and use a clear, firm voice. Your brother might get angry with you, but it just isn't safe to have kids grabbing guns.
Tell you brother to try this: Eddie Eagle Safety Program
March 31st, 2010 10:22 AM
While I agree that the kid needs a bit of stern talking to, I must reiterate and insist that telling the kid "No!" will only be a temporary fix. You need to fill the curiosity void within this kid and the only way to do that is to give him access to things. It sounds strange, but trust me, it works.
Originally Posted by cinsc
My wife was the biggest opponent of this method. She is still not comfortable around guns and wanted me to keep everything hidden away and locked up. If I wore a gun around the house she wanted me to conceal it with a shirt. I did as she asked but occasionally showed my guns to my oldest son and explained what they are and how they are dangerous.
My wife finally converted about 6 to 8 months ago when I stepped away from a Mossberg 500 I was cleaning after 4 rounds of trap (it was broken down into parts and my wife was sitting at the same table working on a laptop). I went to get some more patches from my closet and my youngest (about 9 months old at the time) saw an opportunity to go check out what daddy was playing with. My oldest saw him crawling over that way, ran over in front of him, stopped him and said really loud, "No Ryder, that's dangerous!".
I was of course really really proud, and my wife was amazed. I told her that I'd been teaching him about them and letting him see them and although she was a little upset that I hadn't told her sooner, she was still mightily impressed.
Kill the curiosity, it works!
Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB
March 31st, 2010 10:30 AM
Billy Ng is right on the money. Take the mystique out of the guns. The more you tell your kids "don't touch", the more their curiosity is going to get the better of them when you're not around.
Same story as Billy. When my daughter asks, she gets to see 'em. Anything she wants, unloaded. We talk about how to hold the guns (handguns or long guns), what we use them for, and to handle and use them safely. She doesn't think that guns are all that special, but she also understands that they are dangerous and isn't so comfortable with them that she thinks she can handle one without me around. Everything in my house as far as guns, ammo, and knives are locked up. And, again, same story, at the end of every session, she's asked the questions.
Do you touch Daddy's guns by yourself? Answer: No.
When do you get to touch Daddy's guns? Answer: Only when Daddy's around.
What do you do if you see a gun that's not Daddy's somewhere else? Answer: Don't touch it, and tell an adult.
She's 100% on every question to this day....and she's 5.
In your case, if it's okay with his Dad, when he reaches for it....catch him, tell him he's not allowed to grab at it.....but then, if you have time, take it out, unload it and let him handle it. Keep safety at the utmost importance, like telling him he CANNOT point it at people, pets, etc. But take the mystique out of it. After a time or two, he won't go after it. He won't even care that you have it on....because you've taken the curiosity out of his head.
March 31st, 2010 11:18 AM
Taking the mystery out of guns for kids is the best way to handle things.
With my daughter she knows the rules, safety first and she had to recite the 4 rules of safety before she was every allowed to touch any of them. If she wants to see or clean one of them great, Mom or Dad gets it out, unloads it, shows her it unloaded, she checks again, sometimes twice, and them she is free to handle it with one of us supervising her. She is familar with how every gun in the house operates, and ultimately when she is older I'm sure she will have a few of her own.
Fast forward one year and now she shoots with us at the range. Her favorite is Dad's AK-47, least favorite the Glock 19, and she is chomping at the bit to shoot my snubbie. Now that the weather is getting warmer, we will be doing a trip to the outdoor range and she will get the chance to try it out.
Hiding them, not letting the kids see them and understand how dangerous a firearm can be just reinforces the natural curiosity kids have.
Working with them at stages as they learn and mature can only lead to the next generation of safe gun owners.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
March 31st, 2010 11:33 AM
I agree that children should be taught about guns. That's whay I recommended the Eddie Eagle program. I have used this for my own children.
The "No!" responce I advised was in the event the child was grabbing at the op's gun. You can't have kids grabbing guns, regardless of curiosity or how much experience they have.
March 31st, 2010 12:05 PM
I definitly agree with everyone about education being the best method to curb the curiosity and teach safety and respect.
But as far as reaching for my gun goes, the very least that would happen would be a slap on the hand, maybe a wrist grab and arm twist. Followed by a quick explanation as to why I respond that way when someone touches or reaches for my gun (retension, safety, responsibility for my weapon, ...). Then with parents permision, do the show and tell after the discussion. But I think a very quick, physical response is important to demonstrate the importance of not reaching for someone elses carry weapon. That is a good way to get yourself killed or seriously hurt, and I would much rather have them learn the lesson from me before that happens.
In this case I believe you are not "disciplining" your brothers children, but educating them. Let them know that the only reason they got off as easy as they did is because they are your nephews and kids and you love them, and tell them what you would do to an adult who tried that.
March 31st, 2010 12:33 PM
I don't post much, but I had to speak up on this one.
He's your nephew, and you are responsible for his health & well-being almost as much as your brother, in my opinion (I'm a big 'family' guy - it takes a village and all that). A quick response is completely called for, as well as a stern talking to with explanation as to why you reacted the way you did. The why here is as important as the what. If you are like me, you're the 'fun uncle who doesn't punish us, no matter what we do', but when you react like that, things get serious all of a sudden, and it sinks in.
Little fingers can get into places that our fingers can't get into when they are poking and prodding around (like maybe between a kydex holster and a trigger). So I have a strict 'no touch' policy near my hips (for the wife too when the guns on).
And I believe its never too early to teach. When I was about 5(?), I was curious about my dads guns, and went poking around a bit too far for his liking. That night when he got home, I had to go shoot the .45 revolver. I couldn't pull the trigger in DA mode, and I had to cock it to even fire it. However, after a bit, when my hands were aching and my ears were ringing (I had ear protection), I knew the difference between real guns and toy guns, and I never messed around with guns again (but I did love to shoot them).
Now, I have an 8-month old daughter who can say 'dada' and is just starting to crawl, who loves to clap and is already very curious about everything. Last week she was sitting on my lap and clapping and hit the gun (it was at 3 O'clock concealed in my holster). She looked at me really funny for a few seconds, and then went to hit the gun again because she knew it was not supposed to be there. I stopped her and untucked my shirt and showed her what it was she hit (in the holster, I don't know if the oils/cleaners are bad for kids, but I assume they are, so she can't touch them yet). She stopped reaching, smiled at me and went on to clapping again. When she gets really interested, we'll take the old .22 rifle to the range and learn to shoot properly, but for now, it was enough.
These are two examples of satisfying that curiousity in a way that makes guns serious, but not scary. Just thought I'd share that story, I thought it was cute.
April 1st, 2010 10:10 AM
"It takes a village to raise a child."
You're his uncle, and should not be hesitant to instruct him, especially in areas that can literally be life and death. Have a frank talk with your brother about the situation, and about boundries in general, and get on the same page regarding instruction and discipline (if needed) of your nephew. I've had that same discussion with my brother and my sister, as well as my brother in-law and sister in-law.
Be consistent, and stay safe.
What the **** - How did I end up on this soapbox again?!?!?
April 1st, 2010 12:38 PM
As a mother with 3 small children (the boys are 4 and my daughter is 2) and REALLY new to the WHOLE gun thing, i have had to figure out exactly what i would say to the children....because they boys have issues, and i didn't want them to think of it as a toy if the seen it in my purse or anywhere.....
My husband (who is still not a gun person) and i sat down with the boys, tobyn is still oblivious, she will learn about them soon enough... i explained that this was not a toy. (They watch a lot of older cartoons that have guns in them) and i explained that this was a real version of what they see. It was not a toy and could really hurt them or kill them if they touched it without my permission. Shannon wanted to hold hit, so i let him hold it (the clip was out and it was cleared) and offered to let layne, he wanted nothing to do with it....His exact words were... "No Way, thats dangerous....then he did his twin language thing to his twin, shannon handed it back and told me he didn't like it...... I then explained to them that ONLY mommy can touch the gun without permission. (Daddy can but doesn't want to but they don't need to know that.) I also explained why i got it. I told them that some people are very bad and if someone wants to hurt them, mommy WILL protect them and shoot them. So now we are at the is it a good guy or a bad guy phase..........but they at least understood that i was serious.
I think with your brothers children, if he isn't taking it seriously and punishing them for touching your gun, then shame on him (and if there is a wife/mommy her too.) I know i would have grabbed their arm as their parent and been like NO......and if they did it again......it would result in sitting....and if they would do it again, then there would be a spanking in order..... (not ridiculous.....just enough to make them see the seriousness of it.) I know some people are anti-spanking.....but if it a swat on the butt vs. a gun, i would much rather smack their butt and get the point accross.....
As for since you are the uncle, i would honestly talk to your brother about what he sees as a comfortable punishment to be dealt by from you. Because those lines can be very fuzzy, and as family it isn't a line you want to cross. My kids go up to my parents house, and when they would get upset and hit my sister (she would sit there and take it....not even giving them a slight dose of their own medicine.......she was afraid to upset me....and i got sick of them thinking they could do that to her, and no matter how many times i punished them, it didn't come from her......so eventually, she gave them a very harmless swat on the hands when she was slapped across the face, and they stopped.Just the shock of her punishing them made them see it was seriously enough....)
If your brother doesn't see eye to eye with you about the gun, and how it is handled, and you don't want to detach from the kids, leave it locked in the car.....
Good luck and i hope it helps, i am still new to this.....
April 1st, 2010 05:26 PM
Im surprised it took 22 posts before we got to "It takes a villiage". These are not a strangers kids, these are not a friends kids(although if a good friend it shouldnt matter) these are your nephews and you are responsible for teaching them right and wrong. Perhaps a quick talk with your brother to give him a heads up, but if it happens again tell them like you would tell your own children. It may be a problem your brother has been having and you acting might be the one to reinforce his point.
April 1st, 2010 10:53 PM
My son was always respectful of firearms as I had them in my bedroom unloaded. If he had a question I'd stop what I was doing and get it and
ask him what he want to know and we do a show and tell.He was very safe
as a pre-teen and teenager.Competative shooting was a father /son thing
before he had a car and girls but we had three good years which were priceless.
April 1st, 2010 11:12 PM
I'm not sure if there's an age limit. But I took a Hunters Safety course when I was nine or ten. It has very little to do with hunting, other than state regulations. And focuses a lot on how to properly handle and treat a firearm. In my class they let us handle all the different action types found in rifles and shotguns (no handguns, as not many people where I'm from did pistol hunting-though they were covered in the book). I almost failed the class because they had an old Marlin lever action, the hammer was just so strong my thumb barely had enough strength to decock it. It's a good course for the whole family to take, and I believe the one I took was free.
My first memory of seeing a firearm shot (had seen deer rifles and the such throughout the house but never seen one shot in person) was when my dad took me up to our camp. He told me to draw my face on a melon while he went out into the garden for a few minutes. I was about five, so I don't imagine my self portrait was very good-but I was proud. My dad came back in, told me to bring the melon outside. Had me set it up on a post and come back to him. No sooner am I behind him than I see him pull out his .45 and blow my melon into pieces. And that is why I did not dick around with guns as a kid (sure I did some stupid ****, like trying to shoot a lever action like the Terminator....my recommendation, don't do it). Seeing your poorly drawn face explode into a thousand pieces is fairly traumatic as a young kid.
April 2nd, 2010 09:04 PM
I NEVER have kids inside my spouseless house. But...an old gun buddy came over while babysitting with his two young grandsons. We sat out front and talked while the boys ran and played and fought outside, but started sneaking and running around inside the house, to go to the bathroom as an excuse. I had to consider and remember that I have one livingroom gun, in a plastic office organizer, here next to me on top of an end table next to my lounge chair and this computer. My pal and I considered this and started keeping an eye on them and telling them to stay out of the house.
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