End of Barrel Laser for Adjusting scopes

This is a discussion on End of Barrel Laser for Adjusting scopes within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm new to scopes, so I'm trying to think of the best way to zero in my scope on my 22. I want to get ...

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Thread: End of Barrel Laser for Adjusting scopes

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    End of Barrel Laser for Adjusting scopes

    I'm new to scopes, so I'm trying to think of the best way to zero in my scope on my 22. I want to get it as close to perfect before heading to the range. I can only go on week-ends, and with the kid and family responsibilities, time there is pretty limited.

    I noticed walmart carries a laser that you can insert into the barrel, and use that to help zero in the scope. Do these work well? Are they worth it? Is there something I'm overlooking?

    I'm a complete newbie when it comes to scopes and zeroing them in. Resources, tips, etc etc are greatly welcomed.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    I have heard that they can help you get on the paper, but you still need to tune it in when you get to the range. Some ranges won't let you use them due to people shooting without removing the laser. I would think that the in the bore lasers would be better for this reason.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Depending on the rifle you have you may be able to bore sight without a laser. If you can break the rifle down, or remove the bolt (if its a bolt action) to where you can visually look down the bore to a target 50 yards away, then you can bore sight without any aid.

    Secure rifle to the bench rest of sorts, visually align (looking down the bore) the bore to the center of the target, adjust scope cross hairs to center of target. You should then at least be "on paper" enough to finish zero with a few live shots.

    Another way is to use your irons and scope at the same time. If your iron sights are still mounted, use them to get on target. Secure the rifle first, get a zero with iron sights, then align scope cross hairs to impact point.

    If you cannot do either method you will need a bore sight aid. I had the Site Lite SL100. Very well built. Stainless shank with aluminum laser housing. Red laser beam good for at least 100 yards. However, it costs $100.
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    Member Array alfack's Avatar
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    I've used the cheapie lasers that you put in the muzzle. They work just fine for getting you on paper. I venture to say that no bore sighting tool will get you dead center w/o having to adjust a little, afterward.

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    Member Array Zippy's Avatar
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    If you can secure the rifle so that it will not move when shot here is a simple way to get on with one shot......


    Secure rifle in rest. Fire one shot onto paper. Move crosshairs so that they are where the bullet impacted. You are now sighted in with one round.

    Note this only works if you can keep the gun from moving.

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    Lasers only shoot a straight line. Lasers are not affected by the elements. These are the two main reasons I dont use them. Bullets have what is called a "trajectory" this is the curve that a bullet will follow on its way back to earth. Bullets also differ from lasers in wight, which throws off the trajectory. Amount of powder, head space, bullet shape, etc. all differ from lasers. If your outdoors effects like sunlight and wind will have different effects on bullets. Lasers follow a straight line forever and are no affected by elements.

    The best way to sight in any rifle is to spend time at the range. I love doing this, this is why I GO to the rifle range. Its funny to watch peoples reaction when I hit a piece of clay pigeon at 500yds with my .308 cold bore.

    If you have a "no impact no idea" situation after shooting, aim at the top, bottom, sides of target until you do. Or have people "spot" the impacts in the berm or dirt or where ever.

    I know that you are only shooting a .22, but these apply to every rifle fitted with a scope. Bore sights, IMHO, are a waste of money. They may get you close, but not zero. I can get you close without using a scope, sights, laser whatever, I can get your bullet down range from the HIP!

    But if you insist on a laser, spend the money and get a good one that will put you on paper. I have seen many that wont even come close. They are pointed off one direction or another.

    Just my .02

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    Lasers only shoot a straight line. Lasers are not affected by the elements. These are the two main reasons I dont use them. Bullets have what is called a "trajectory" this is the curve that a bullet will follow on its way back to earth. Bullets also differ from lasers in wight, which throws off the trajectory. Amount of powder, head space, bullet shape, etc. all differ from lasers. If your outdoors effects like sunlight and wind will have different effects on bullets. Lasers follow a straight line forever and are no affected by elements.

    The best way to sight in any rifle is to spend time at the range. I love doing this, this is why I GO to the rifle range. Its funny to watch peoples reaction when I hit a piece of clay pigeon at 500yds with my .308 cold bore.

    If you have a "no impact no idea" situation after shooting, aim at the top, bottom, sides of target until you do. Or have people "spot" the impacts in the berm or dirt or where ever.

    I know that you are only shooting a .22, but these apply to every rifle fitted with a scope. Bore sights, IMHO, are a waste of money. They may get you close, but not zero. I can get you close without using a scope, sights, laser whatever, I can get your bullet down range from the HIP!

    But if you insist on a laser, spend the money and get a good one that will put you on paper. I have seen many that wont even come close. They are pointed off one direction or another.

    Just my .02
    What he said,Also if you have no idea where your hitting at 100 yards,sight in at 25 and allow for distance from center of scope to center of bore for bullet impact,that'll get you on paper and at 100 yards its a matter of tuning it in.
    I am not a Sniper nor claim to play one in movies or on TV,I shoot like I pee and as long as there isn't too much collateral damage it's a good day
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    I'm new to scopes, so I'm trying to think of the best way to zero in my scope on my 22. I want to get it as close to perfect before heading to the range. I can only go on week-ends, and with the kid and family responsibilities, time there is pretty limited.
    Don't "romance" the task of sighting in your scope, especially with a .22. Depending on what your mounts and rings are like, if you simply achieve a good scope installation and your equipment is decent quality, you'll do better than getting your first shots "on paper."

    Also, if you have a semi-auto, you really can't "bore sight" it like you can a bolt action. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a Wal-Mart tool unless I was assured of how it maintained concentricity with the centerline of the bore.

    To minimize your range time, I would start at maybe 50 feet with a sighting target (the ones with the 1" grid printed on them, usually in red). Shoot maybe 3 rounds and see where they land. If you've done your homework and you understand MOA and scope clicks, your first set of adjustments should get you darned close to zeroed. The big boomers that shake scopes loose in their rings and mounts, and which heat up barrels dramatically after 3 shots - those are the bears to deal with. Once you're happy with the results at 50 feet, move your target out to the distance at which you want to achieve your zero.

    Last fall I took my time putting together a 10/22 sporter by pieces mostly bought separately. I dropped a couple hundred on a good scope, and also got a decent B-Square mount to use Weaver rings. I did what I could to make sure the rings and scope didn't bind, I torqued things evenly, etc. I didn't touch the scope adjustments (sometimes I run the adjusters thru their full range of clicks, and put them in the middle of the range before sighting it in). Talk about dumb luck... the attached photo shows where the very first rounds out of the gun landed. You might not be THAT lucky, but I bet you won't be far off, either.

    What's the gun, and what is the scope?
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    Smitty
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    People who spend the most time spent zeroing either don't understand the scope adjustments or put their target out too far initially.

    Put your target (bigger is better) out at 10 yds. Fire a shot. If it was good, no flinch etc, adjust your scope accordingly. If it has 1/4 MOA adjustments, for each inch you need to adjust, it takes 40 clicks. No, I'm not kidding. Because your scope and bore are not in alignment, adjust your POI about an inch or two low. Move target out to 25 yds. Here, each inch takes 16 clicks for a 1/4 MOA scope. Rinse, repeat.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    I sighted in my 30-06 700 Rem. In 4 shots NO Problem, But I've sighted in a many a rifel in my day. Daddy taught me the tricks of the trade Years ago ; ) PS - Bolt Actions are the easiest And knowing the balistics are a big plus!!
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    I'm new to scopes, so I'm trying to think of the best way to zero in my scope on my 22. I want to get it as close to perfect before heading to the range. I can only go on week-ends, and with the kid and family responsibilities, time there is pretty limited.

    I noticed walmart carries a laser that you can insert into the barrel, and use that to help zero in the scope. Do these work well? Are they worth it? Is there something I'm overlooking?

    I'm a complete newbie when it comes to scopes and zeroing them in. Resources, tips, etc etc are greatly welcomed.
    In my honest opinion, (and I've been doing this a while)....the Tasco bore sighting kit (#28A) is very good to get you on paper with a new scope install (if you can find them anymore). It's different than a laser and has scope covers with a pin hole in them and a graph chart that aligns on a plastic insert into the bore. It also has a gauge where you measure the center of your bore depending on the rifle whether bolt action or semi-auto and the 22 rimfires as well. Better than a laser IMO because I've bore-sighted many scopes in the confines of my garage or workshop this way, and distance doesn't matter with this tool. The laser bore sighting instruments are okay, but where the laser bore sighter really needs to go is in the chamber and not at the muzzle, and those tools are more expensive and not so universal. Without these tools, a virgin scope mounting on any rifle and sighting it in by means of rounds downrange can become difficult if you don't have a spotter, or a 4ft square target at 50yds. without wasting too much ammo and time chasing the impacts, you should know at least a little about how the scope adjustments work and affect the point of impact. if you don't, you'll only become frustrated, and short on ammo very quickly. Out of the dozens of folks I've helped at the range with zeroing their scopes, the most frequent problem I see is reticle alignment, or square with the rifle. Most folks being either left hand or right hand dominant tend to cant their rifle to the dominant side, and hence do so as well when mounting a scope and figuring everything is right with the world because that's how they shoot it. A scope cant of very small degree will make sighting it in even more difficult since the true vertical and horizontal alignment will be askew with the bore. Remember back to the days of high school math and triangles and trigonometry. Best to work with true 90 angles rather than vectors that enter into complex calculations. Sighting in a scope isn't all that difficult with or without expensive tools. You just simply need a good foundation and understanding of the mechanics. I hate wasting good ammo.
    http://www.abousainc.com/SightIn.htm
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Tasco-Scope-Guid...item335aac2940

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I have trioed 2 different types of lasers in the past,and when I got to the range had to start from scratch
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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    I use a laser boresighter to sight in the gun at the house using a 1" target dot on the wall 25 feet away. At the range a big target backing paper is stapled on the silhoutte target. A 2" bullseye is pasted on the backing paper. The first round from a rifle is always on the the paper at 50 yards. Recently bought a better green laser for bore-sighting at the range. It is visible beyond 100 yards.

    If used correctly a laser boresighter will save a lot of ammo when sighting in a gun.

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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Depending on the rifle you have you may be able to bore sight without a laser. If you can break the rifle down, or remove the bolt (if its a bolt action) to where you can visually look down the bore to a target 50 yards away, then you can bore sight without any aid.

    Secure rifle to the bench rest of sorts, visually align (looking down the bore) the bore to the center of the target, adjust scope cross hairs to center of target. You should then at least be "on paper" enough to finish zero with a few live shots.

    Another way is to use your irons and scope at the same time. If your iron sights are still mounted, use them to get on target. Secure the rifle first, get a zero with iron sights, then align scope cross hairs to impact point.

    If you cannot do either method you will need a bore sight aid. I had the Site Lite SL100. Very well built. Stainless shank with aluminum laser housing. Red laser beam good for at least 100 yards. However, it costs $100.
    That's what I do. When I complete the sighting by shooting I make sure that I have a large target. It is easier to get on paper if you have big paper.

    I zero my 22s for 50 yards.
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  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    I've used a laserlyte with good success. 22, 556 & 308.
    1. Bounce dot off neighbors garage- approx 50yds
    2. Align cross hairs to dot- worked with EOTECH as well
    3. Fine tune at range
    Bore sighting is meant to get on paper not to compensate ballistics. That's why the live fire.
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

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