Drawbacks to C&R license?

This is a discussion on Drawbacks to C&R license? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have heard of the many benefits of having one of these. Discounts from online stores direct ordering guns and others. What I want to ...

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Drawbacks to C&R license?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298

    Drawbacks to C&R license?

    I have heard of the many benefits of having one of these. Discounts from online stores direct ordering guns and others. What I want to know is the drawbacks if any.
    Record keeping? Selling or giving as gifts guns purchased with it. Giving weapons to relatives. Storage areas, are they subject to searches? Anything you consider a hassle?

    Michael

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array das38spl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    central NH
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I have heard of the many benefits of having one of these. Discounts from online stores direct ordering guns and others. What I want to know is the drawbacks if any.
    Record keeping? Selling or giving as gifts guns purchased with it. Giving weapons to relatives. Storage areas, are they subject to searches? Anything you consider a hassle?

    Michael
    Depends on your particular situation...and how well you keep records as a rule.....
    I have JUST - today - applied for a C&L; my local police chief has his copy and "COPY #1" is on its way to Atlanta....For me, I simply wish to be able to receive parts discounts for MY OWN PRIVATE USE...NOT for anyone else!! On that rare chance I come across an 1898 Mauser that grabs my interest....the C&L will be nice to have......
    As long as you are good at keeping records/receipts, you should have no problems....DO remember, though....the mere fact that you possess a FFL - of ANY kind - means you are subject to "random" audits of your paperwork...at ANY TIME!!
    My advice would be to err on the side of caution...DON'T make purchases for OTHERS...PERIOD!! What you buy....you KEEP!
    Just my $.02 --- Good luck with your license!!!

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    3,969
    I have my C&R, and have used it for some purchase. It's inexpensive, you do get some discounts from vendors, and you have to keep books.

    The bookkeeping is easy enough, it's actually info that you ought to have anyway regarding a gun purchase.

    Don't forget a C&R doesn't make you a dealer or gun store..........it is for collecting.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  5. #4
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    The bookkeeping is easy enough, it's actually info that you ought to have anyway regarding a gun purchase.
    Keep detailed records.If you take the gun out to the range, log it out/back in in your records.

    Don't forget a C&R doesn't make you a dealer or gun store..........it is for collecting.
    Exactly, it is for collectibles only. Basically guns over 50yrs old or a limited set of guns defined as collectibles by the ATF.
    http://www.saf.org/ --- Fighting for American's Gun Rights
    http://GeorgiaCarry.org --- Fighting for Georgian's Gun Rights.
    http://Georgiapacking.org --- Discussion of Georgia Gun Laws.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,439
    Based on your description of what you want to do, you might want to look into getting your FFL.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Don't forget a C&R doesn't make you a dealer or gun store..........it is for collecting.
    Based on your description of what you want to do, you might want to look into getting your FFL.
    No I understand that it is for collecting and not dealing to the public. I was more worried about when I decide to start passing my firearms on to others when I'm to old to enjoy them. I'd rather do it while i'm alive than in a will. I want to enjoy the moment with them. I have planned this out on most my firearms and wondered how ones purchased with a C&L might be different.

    Along with the paperwork are the weapons themselves subject to examination? Must I allow someone into my house?

    Michael

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array ppkheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    3,969
    IIRC you don't have to allow anyone in your house, but you do have to make the guns available for them to examine. It seems I've read that some guys have arranged for them to bring the guns to the ATF office and meet with them there, and some have had the inspection conducted inside their garage, though not inside their homes.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,439
    Read the BATF section on passing your firearms thru a trust.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    I have my C&R, but I haven't really done anything with it yet, so my read through of the BATF documentation is a while back...

    My understanding is that you only need to keep records of C&R guns, and only those that you transfer in or out while the license is valid. Thus, the records keeping is fairly minimal; as others have pointed out, it's the sort of stuff I tend to keep on any guns I buy anyway, just organized a certain way.

    In MD the C&R has an added benefit of making one a "designated collector" able to avoid the gun-a-month rule.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  11. #10
    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    Keep detailed records.If you take the gun out to the range, log it out/back in in your records.
    Wait. Really? You have to record taking a gun out to the range? I assumed you would only have to record changes of "possession", meaning buying or selling a gun. I would never remember to check a gun out each time it goes shooting.
    I am not a Lawyer, LEO, or Special Forces Operator.
    The writings above are not burdened by trivialities such as research, experience or facts. However, it is on the Internet, so it must be true.
    InstructorCommunity, forum for instructors.
    The Threadless Nut, my blog

  12. #11
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,096
    I've had my C&R for 6 years and have only bought 3 guns with it, that's really not a lot of paper work to keep up with
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

  13. #12
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    21,369
    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    In MD the C&R has an added benefit of making one a "designated collector" able to avoid the gun-a-month rule.
    The Maryland "Collector" status doesn't require a C&R, they are two separate things.

    The C&R with out the Maryland Collector will not avoid the gun-a-month since it is a State (MSP) data base, and a separate application form!!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  14. #13
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by mchasal View Post
    Wait. Really? You have to record taking a gun out to the range? I assumed you would only have to record changes of "possession", meaning buying or selling a gun. I would never remember to check a gun out each time it goes shooting.
    When I got mine that's the impression I got. Anytime the gun leaves the premises. I doubt not recording range trips would cause you actual legal troubles, but better safe than sorry. I would definitely log if it goes off to a gun smith, etc.

    You do not have to use your C&R for all your collectible purchases if you don't wish to, but then you still have to meet the regular fed/state gun purchase laws. You only have to keep logged the guns you've actually purchased using your C&R. My understanding is that you can stop being a C&R at anytime and once you do, you are no longer required to keep your log or even turn it over to ATF (as a regular dealer would have to if they went out of business).
    http://www.saf.org/ --- Fighting for American's Gun Rights
    http://GeorgiaCarry.org --- Fighting for Georgian's Gun Rights.
    http://Georgiapacking.org --- Discussion of Georgia Gun Laws.

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    The Maryland "Collector" status doesn't require a C&R, they are two separate things.

    The C&R with out the Maryland Collector will not avoid the gun-a-month since it is a State (MSP) data base, and a separate application form!!
    I have both, but I recall the state paperwork basically saying that either a designated collector or a C&R holder are exempt from the gun-a-month question. I will try to dig up a reference...

    ETA:

    Okay, here it is. The gun-a-month statute is:

    29.03.01.04 Multiple Purchase of Regulated Firearms
    [...]

    D. For the purpose of this regulation, a collector is an individual who:

    (1) Devotes time and attention to acquiring certain types of regulated firearms for the enhancement of the collector's personal collection and does not act as a firearm dealer; or

    (2) Possesses a Federal Collector's License (Curio and Relics).
    Now, I got my "designated collector" letter from the MDSP right after I bought my first gun about five years ago. I got my C&R license about a year ago. I don't recall the collector app saying anything about a C&R in 2005, and if you look at the app now it references the "collector" definition from the statue, but has no place on the app to indicate a C&R license number. And you clearly don't even need a C&R to get the app approved from the state, so I am not sure why they even bother mentioning it on the form. Curious...

    I really do remember seeing C&R listed on the state form as allowing a "n/a" response to the "purchase in the last 30 days question"...
    Last edited by kazzaerexys; April 14th, 2010 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Additional info.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Commiechusetts
    Posts
    1,625
    Quote Originally Posted by mchasal View Post
    Wait. Really? You have to record taking a gun out to the range? I assumed you would only have to record changes of "possession", meaning buying or selling a gun. I would never remember to check a gun out each time it goes shooting.
    You are correct, you only have to log in/out acquisitions and dispositions of C&R guns.

    The log in/out requirement erroneously referred to above for range trips is only for Dealers as it is not a "personal possession" but "store inventory" which must be accounted for at all times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    When I got mine that's the impression I got. Anytime the gun leaves the premises.

    You do not have to use your C&R for all your collectible purchases if you don't wish to, but then you still have to meet the regular fed/state gun purchase laws. You only have to keep logged the guns you've actually purchased using your C&R.
    Wrong, and wrong.

    See above on your first point.

    YOU are the FFL (C&R variety) and thus YOU are under the Regs for same. No matter if you buy FTF in-state privately or use your C&R for a mail-order purchase, if the gun is C&R (and your C&R FFL is current), you MUST log the acquisitions/dispositions in your Bound Book.

    If you surrender your C&R FFL, you can then destroy your records, do what you like, but as long as you are licensed you must comply with the Regs for a C&R FFL.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Non res. MA license
    By Mags in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: September 19th, 2009, 11:36 PM
  2. New License
    By Lurch in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: April 13th, 2008, 12:56 PM
  3. .223 drawbacks for home / ranch gun ?
    By Shizzlemah in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: January 10th, 2008, 02:41 PM
  4. Tuckable is a Good Option - Even with drawbacks.
    By Rob Longenecker in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: October 8th, 2006, 10:03 PM
  5. New license
    By LPguy in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: May 6th, 2005, 01:00 AM

Search tags for this page

c & r license

,

c and r license

,
c and r license maryland
,
c&r license
,

c&r license

,
c&r license in maryland
,
c&r license maryland
,
c&r license massachusetts
,
cr license
,
ma c&r license
,

maryland c&r license

,
md c&r license
Click on a term to search for related topics.