Looking for input on an AR purchase

I have been shopping and reading up on my first AR. I would like a varmint type rig, and am hoping for some input. I really like the RRA coyote rifle and predator pursuit setups so far, specifically because of their pricepoint/features. I would like to air on the side of less expensive if possible, lets say about 1200 is the most I really can do (not including glass). I do want to stick with .223/5.56. Most of the hunting I would be doing would be prairie dogs and a few coyotes at ranges most likely not exceeding ~350yds.

What do you guys think?

Bushmaster makes some great rifles for distances up to 350 yards.

i prefer Bushmaster over RRA cuz they are alot more durable then RRA i have known some Bushmaster owners have their rifles past 20k rounds and still running on the original barrels.

Take a look at BravoCompanyUSA.com if your looking for AR options and parts. They have well built uppers.

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Originally Posted by Taylor

Take a look at BravoCompanyUSA.com if your looking for AR options and parts. They have well built uppers.

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You know, that is usually my first response as well, but I think that in his particular case, the DPMS/Bushmaster/RRA folks may be a better deal.

BCM makes a terrific tactical carbine. But the same things that make Bushy, DPMS and RRA poor choices for a tactical carbine make them excellent choices for varmint and target guns. You don't need a milspec 5.56 chamber and chrome lined barrels for a varmint gun, for instance. You're never going to heat up or put your bolt under a bunch of stress, so HPT/MPI are un-necessary. Same thing with taper pins on your FSB, or 1/7 barrels. 4140 or stainless steel are plenty fine for accuracy purposes. Staked castle nuts or gas keys won't really figure in to reliability of a varmint gun, either.

Personally, If I were building a varmint gun, I'd look into an "el cheapo" heavy barreled kit.

J&T Bull Barrel Kit*

Even a bottom of the barrel Model 1 Sales kit on a $90 stripped lower will provide a good basic platform for a varminter. And that gets you there at half your budget.

I bought a Doublestar M4 5.56 from Budsgunshop for $659. You might think its junk, but its really top notch. Read the reviews. Guys that have had Colts their whole life bought one of these for a beater, then it turned out to be much more than they expected. It was 685 delivered including $25 transfer. Slap a rear sight (or optics) and your ready to go. I bought some 30 round mags from BravoCompany and have been having a blast shooting it. It was my first semiauto rifle, so I didnt want to pay alot. Good luck

DPMS's varmint rifles are a lot of rifle for the money; I've seen out of the box rifles break shot under an inch at 100 yards with factory ammo.

A 18-24" floated bull barrel would fit your bill quite nicely, I would think. Build your own lower (incredibly easy), and find an upper for a price you like...the nice thing about uppers is that there's no need to involve an FFL.

I just looked at DPMS's site--a 24" bull barrel with a float tube is $664; add a basic BCG for $135 (you can find them cheaper with a little looking) and you're looking at $800, MSRP; you can easily build a lower to the exact specifications you want for less than $400...

Personally, I would say that it wouldn't be too difficult to build the rifle you want for well under $1,000.

this 24" AR took a ground hog a 480y in 1 hit with a 40gr Vmax

and will shot under 1" @ 200y

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/714...2371845.th.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/996...1872005.th.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/545...2860549.th.jpg

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Originally Posted by hihosilver

I bought a Doublestar M4 5.56 from Budsgunshop for $659. You might think its junk, but its really top notch. Read the reviews. Guys that have had Colts their whole life bought one of these for a beater, then it turned out to be much more than they expected. It was 685 delivered including $25 transfer. Slap a rear sight (or optics) and your ready to go. I bought some 30 round mags from BravoCompany and have been having a blast shooting it. It was my first semiauto rifle, so I didnt want to pay alot. Good luck

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It's not junk. But it's not top notch, either. Lots of guns are "good enough" for casual use or plinking, and I believe it falls in there. I owned a DSA for a few years.

Incorrectly cut chambers, lack of gas key staking, lack of castle nut staking and (prolly) lack of taper pins on the FSB.

Plus, it doesn't fulfull the OP's mission requirements of "varmint rifle" though I wouldn't be afraid to work up a 16" DSA HBAR for that role with a decent scope. (Think Super Sniper 10 x 42 or a used Weaver T model.)

How critical is the quality of the lower as far as accuracy goes? Is the quality of the lower and its guts of it really going to influence accuracy that much? I would really like to average 1/2 to 3/4 MOA (or better) groups at 100 yards. Are higher end components really as important as the quality of the upper assembly? I know I will need (and want) a light and clean trigger, but what else matters?

Thanks

I have a very nice Bushmaster DCM. I am trying to talk myself into selling it so I can build an M1A. It is a tackdriver and you couldn't go wrong picking one up for varmints. Nice set trigger 3 1/2 on 1st stage 1/2 on letoff. 1 inch heavy barrel.

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Originally Posted by cass8171

How critical is the quality of the lower as far as accuracy goes? Is the quality of the lower and its guts of it really going to influence accuracy that much? I would really like to average 1/2 to 3/4 MOA (or better) groups at 100 yards. Are higher end components really as important as the quality of the upper assembly? I know I will need (and want) a light and clean trigger, but what else matters?

Thanks

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Lower quality shouldn't effect accuracy a bit.

The most accurate shooter I ever had was a DPMS Varminter upper on a Vulcan (Hesse) Carbon Fiber lower. My lower cost o/a $120, complete.

I've even shot Model 1 Sales gun kits on cheap stripped lowers that had good enough accuracy to group and kill varmints.

If accuracy or plinking is all you really want, I'd go as cheap as I could. Very few of the parts and kits out there will not function in their intended role.

The three things that will make this rig accurate, trigger, sights/optics and barrel. Generally speaking operating parts are pretty much spec, meaning basically the same, so in theory they should work fine.
You have two choices buy a kit, upper and lower, and put it together or have it put together or buy a factory model. Of the factory models everyone will have an opinion as do I.
I prefer RRA simply because of the trigger and barrels. Any of there rifles I have owned have had no issues with whatsoever. You can find decent mid range glass that will fill your needs and can upgrade parts and optics as needed.
Again just an opinion look around and you may be able to find a good deal on something used or built by someone else. Good luck in your search.

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Originally Posted by Cuda66

Build your own lower (incredibly easy), and find an upper for a price you like...the nice thing about uppers is that there's no need to involve an FFL.

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I'm afraid you are mistaken about that. GCA does not control the sale of firearms parts. Except frames or receivers of firearms are "firearms" as defined in the law and subject to the same controls as complete firearms.
Ref. ATF 5300.4, 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (3) (A) (B) (C)

This does not preclude a non licensee (FFL) with certain exceptions, from assembling a firearm provided it is not for sale and you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. You are prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or shotgun and an NFA firearm without tax payment and approval by ATF.

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Originally Posted by SIGP250

I'm afraid you are mistaken about that. GCA does not control the sale of firearms parts. Except frames or receivers of firearms are "firearms" as defined in the law and subject to the same controls as complete firearms.
Ref. ATF 5300.4, 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (3) (A) (B) (C)

This does not preclude a non licensee (FFL) with certain exceptions, from assembling a firearm provided it is not for sale and you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. You are prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or shotgun and an NFA firearm without tax payment and approval by ATF.

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Can I get that in plain English? I was pretty sure he was right. Lowers need FFL, uppers and other parts do not. But I'm a newbie and not about to argue with you.

It means, Yes you can build an AR- for your own use. It is to be for sporting use only but who is going to know the difference?

The main thing to understand is that Frame, Upper and lower receivers are considered firearms. That means, Yes you DO have to go through an FFL to buy those parts. You can buy barrels, scopes, butt stocks without an FFL but the major parts are regulated by federal law and can only legally be purchased from an FFL or transfered to an FFL. GCR is Gun Control Act.
Does that help?