Awesome logic from my uncle

Awesome logic from my uncle

This is a discussion on Awesome logic from my uncle within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Got into a fun little discussion with an uncle on Facebook tonight. I had posted my thoughts on everyone taking responsibility for their own safety, ...

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Thread: Awesome logic from my uncle

  1. #1
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Awesome logic from my uncle

    Got into a fun little discussion with an uncle on Facebook tonight. I had posted my thoughts on everyone taking responsibility for their own safety, and self-preservation with an emphasis on campuses and other school related shootings for an example of why 'Gun Free Zones' are a failure.... His comments boiled my blood, and now I can't sleep. How was my response to his comments? He hasn't returned fire since my last comments, as seen below.

    Uncle:
    How many generations do have to go back to find any family member at any time who has been subject to home invasion, robbery, assault? You are delusional. Anyone with a gun is a threat. Anyone with a gun is a potential criminal. I'll take civilization and leave the wild west to you. (refering to him living fulltime in another country soon)
    My response:
    Why should I, or anyone for that matter, base current-day decisions on 10, 20, 30, 40, 50+ year old information when this day in age is clearly becoming more hostile?

    Frank, I think you're onto something with your logic. There's really no reason to continue using my seatbelt. I really don't need to use it since either of my parents have been involved in car wrecks in their decades of driving. So, a seatbelt is a waste of time and energy, serving no real purpose. Same goes for a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I've never seen or heard of them needing to use one, so that one more thing I won't need to burden myself with.

    Self-preservation hoes far beyond firearms. Your logic in this particular situation is laughable and holds no water
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    WOW!! You should feel ashamed of yourself!!
    He has all of these emotional ideas on guns in his mind and you are confusing him with facts!!

    Seriously, don’t let him get to you. Hopefully he will live out the rest of his life and never be touched by crime.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    SAMI, can I come to dinner at your house for Thanksgiving this year?
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    So...let me see if I understand...guns make people bad?

    So if someone broke in with a machete, hammer, or box cutter, they aren't there to harm me, so I should offer them coffee?

    Where is this utopia he speaks of?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  5. #5
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    I don't have to go back any generations; my house was burglerized.

    Sounds like he's of the "It'll never happen to me" school. That's what they all think until it does. Does he assume that home invasions and muggings, etc. keep happening to the same poor slobs?

    You answer was fair and to the point.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    My aunt lives out in a wooded-rural area in South Jersey. Years ago, her house was broken into while no one was home. Even though I only heard about it from across the country, I could sense how violated and scared she felt. No one should have to deal with that.

    And if crime is so rare, why can't I turn the news on without hearing about it?

    Look at any crime statistics. When you see those numbers, start to realize those aren't numbers. Those are people.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    SAMI, I think your logic was good but your approach was not. My guess is that he hasn't responded because he is upset at you! Remember, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. My advice would be to remain civil even when someone gives a ridiculous answer, much like your uncle. Be calm and civil with the facts, and you stand a much better chance of being right AND winning him to your way of thinking.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  8. #8
    Member Array SAMI's Avatar
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    I did come of a bit harsh. I let my emotions respond harder than I should've. His first comment in the discussion with other family and friends was this:

    Uncle:
    Cannot wait to live full time in a country that is not occupied by gun nuts.
    His next comment:
    Anyone who believes their personal safety is based on personal gun ownership is a delusional gun nut. At one point we had evolved beyond the wild west. Don't know why we're reverting. Again, can't wait until I'm out of this country and out of this culture.
    To answer where he's off to, Buenos Aires, he has a house there and has bounced between here and there for many years.

    I find it interesting that he's so upset with the "culture", as though referring to just the gun culture of America. I'll add for the readers info, that my uncle grew up LDS, served a 2 year mission, afterwards announced that he is homosexual. So, imagine the Utah culture that he has lived in for decades. I hardly believe that gun owners are the main catalyst to his wanting to finally jump ship to another country for good.

    I've always liked my uncle, as he is a really fun guy.. Strange on some level, as I don't understand liking men, but that's never once stopped me from getting to know him.. He's family after all.

    Buenos Aires is no peach. I cannot understand why it's safer down there than it is here. Both are not safe, but I'd say that America is the lesser of two evils as far as overall safety is concerned.

    I plan to write up an email today to smooth over any damage that might've come from this.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If he's planning on escaping to a civilised country like England,I wish him luck
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #10
    Member Array Adameeski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMI View Post
    Why should I, or anyone for that matter, base current-day decisions on 10, 20, 30, 40, 50+ year old information when this day in age is clearly becoming more hostile?

    Frank, I think you're onto something with your logic. There's really no reason to continue using my seatbelt. I really don't need to use it since either of my parents have been involved in car wrecks in their decades of driving. So, a seatbelt is a waste of time and energy, serving no real purpose. Same goes for a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I've never seen or heard of them needing to use one, so that one more thing I won't need to burden myself with.

    Self-preservation hoes far beyond firearms. Your logic in this particular situation is laughable and holds no water
    That's just funny, I don't care who you are!!! I think that was a very appropriate retort.
    ...Adam

    "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." --Winston Churchill

  11. #11
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    I have had similar conversations with allot of people. Below is what I posted in another site's forum that asked the question "how do you respond when people ask you why you carry/own a gun?"

    Here is what I respond with when someone wants to have the "Why do you own/carry a gun?"

    I ask if they own/rent a home? If they have some form of fire insurance? Smoke detectors? Maybe a fire extinguisher or two?

    Everyone always says yes.

    Then I ask if they think having all that is a little paranoid, after all chance of a house fire is not that high.

    Everyone always says it's not paranoia, just good planning.

    Then I point this out (you can verify my numbers at NFPA and DOJ [2008 numbers]):

    You are 1700 (no that's not a typo) times more likely to be a victim of violent crime in the US than you are to die in a house fire.

    You are 12 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime requiring a call to the cops than you are to be a victim of any fire event requiring a call to the fire department.

    Based on that, I'd say having a gun is "just good planning."
    -------
    Another intersesting set of facts, just because I like numbers:

    Below numbers are 2004, because it's the most recent year I could find accurate numbers for both:

    29,569 = Number of people in US killed by firearm (includes: homicide, suicide and negligence/accident)

    38,444 = Number of people killed in traffic accidents.

    Clearly the problem in this country is not our guns, it's our driving.

    So, using the gun-control logic, I say before we take guns away, we take all the cars away first
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
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  12. #12
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    Here is another rebuttal you can use in regards to the "wild west."

    There was no such thing as the "Wild West." There were more murders per capita using guns in big eastern cities than were murdered using guns in the "Wild West" during the same time period. The "Wild West" is fiction made up by writers and hollywood.


    From this website: Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West'

    In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

    * In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
    * In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

    Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control ?paradise? cities of the east:

    * DC ? 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
    * New York ? 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
    * Baltimore ? 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
    * Newark ? 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Reading for your Uncle

    From the U.S. State Department: Argentina

    CRIME: Most American citizens visit Argentina without incident. Nevertheless, street crime in the larger cities, especially greater Buenos Aires and Mendoza, is a problem for residents and visitors alike. As in any big city, visitors to Buenos Aires and popular tourist destinations should be alert to muggers, pickpockets, scam artists, and purse-snatchers on the street, in hotel lobbies, at bus and train stations, and in cruise ship ports. Criminals usually work in groups, and travelers should assume they are armed. Criminals employ a variety of ruses to distract and victimize unsuspecting visitors.

    A common scam is to spray mustard or a similar substance on the tourist from a distance. A pickpocket will then approach the tourist offering to help clean the stain, and while doing so, he or an accomplice robs the victim. Another scam is to entice tourists into a bar known as a “wiskeria” with a flyer for a shopping discount or free show. Once inside, the victim is not allowed to leave until he or she pays an exorbitant amount for a drink. Thieves regularly nab unattended purses, backpacks, laptops, and luggage, and criminals will often distract visitors for a few seconds to steal valuables. While most American victims are not physically injured when robbed, criminals are known to use force when they encounter resistance. Visitors are advised to immediately hand over all cash and valuables if confronted. Thieves will target visitors wearing expensive watches or jewelry.

    Some travelers have received counterfeit currency in Argentina. Unscrupulous vendors and taxi drivers sometimes pretend to help tourists review their pesos, then trade bad bills for good ones. Characteristics of good currency can be reviewed at the Argentine Central Bank web site at Banco Central de la República Argentina.

    Along with conventional muggings, "express kidnappings" occur. Victims are grabbed off the street based on their appearance and vulnerability. They are made to withdraw as much money as possible from ATM machines, and then their family or co-workers are contacted and told to deliver all the cash that they have on hand or can gather in a couple of hours. Once the ransom is paid, the victim is usually quickly released unharmed. There have been some foreign victims. Visitors are particularly advised not to let children and adolescents travel alone.

    Travelers worldwide are advised to avoid packing valuables in their checked baggage. In Argentina, officials have publicly acknowledged the systematic theft of valuables and money from checked baggage at Buenos Aires airports. Authorities are working to resolve the problem and have made a number of arrests, but travelers should exercise continued care and caution.
    From How Bad is Crime in Buenos Aires? | Buenos Aires Tips

    On one hand, many people who have visited Buenos Aires will say things like “I walked everywhere in Buenos Aires at all hours of the day and night and never had a problem or felt unsafe. I saw women pushing their strollers at midnight for gosh sakes. It’s safe.”

    On the other hand, you will hear people who have been touched by crime say things like “the crime here is horrible, especially against tourists. You wouldn’t believe the stuff that goes unreported.” And you can certainly read stories in the newspapers about robberies, murders and all manner of terrible crimes taking place with alarming frequency.
    So much for his "civilization"
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  14. #14
    gtv
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    Great logic... "Anyone with a gun is a threat. Anyone with a gun is a potential criminal."

    Since DUIs and/or vehicular homicides occur when an intoxicated individual is behind the wheel of a car, does that mean that anyone who has a car is a threat? Anyone who has a car is a potential criminal?

    When I was growing up, I lived in a world where the only time we ever locked our doors was if we went on vacation. Crime was something that happened in "the city," and the only thing we were afraid of was not getting enough rain.

    Today, I live in the same old house, and standing on my porch, I can see five houses that have been robbed in the past two years. Today, I have multiple locks on my doors, and still worry if it is enough. It is a different world, and I cannot, and will not, rely upon the police to protect myself or my family from harm. I am the first line of defense.
    "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day... Teach a man to fish and he'll spend all his time in the basement tying flies and neglecting his personal hygiene." -- Jimmy James

    "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!" -- Admiral James T. Kirk

  15. #15
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    I have "conversations" like this with family members and friends all the time. I am called paranoid, crazy and of course my favorite "gun nut". And my response to them on all comments goes like this:

    "Better to be alive and paranoid, crazy, or a gun nut, then be dead and not have the choice."
    A good friend will come bail you out of jail...But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn we screwed up".

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