Anyone care to talk me out of picking up an 'American Classic 1911-A1'? - Page 2

Anyone care to talk me out of picking up an 'American Classic 1911-A1'?

This is a discussion on Anyone care to talk me out of picking up an 'American Classic 1911-A1'? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIGP250 The Metro Arms 1911 is the Filipino gun. Bursa and Metro Arms are different companies but both go by the name ...

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Thread: Anyone care to talk me out of picking up an 'American Classic 1911-A1'?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    The Metro Arms 1911 is the Filipino gun. Bursa and Metro Arms are different companies but both go by the name American Classic. They both came out about the same time, I think it was the 2008 Shot Show. I know Metro has gotten some decent reviews and has more selection than Bursa.
    That is really interesting. It's extremely difficult to compare 'apples to apples' when researching this model on the web. 'Great feedback folks, I knew you wouldn't let me down .
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    That is really interesting. It's extremely difficult to compare 'apples to apples' when researching this model on the web. 'Great feedback folks, I knew you wouldn't let me down .
    I know the feeling. Even from a very early age I would wander up and down the toy store aisles sometimes for hours. Later in life, I became hopllessly addicted to hardware stores and gun shops.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Colt has made many millions more 1911 pattern pistols than Springfield or any other manufacture. Springfield Armory made some M1911's in WW1. During WW2 more 1911 A1's were made by Singer Sewing Machine Co. than by Springfield.

    Springfield got an FBI contract in 1998. After Beretta 92F 9mm pistols stared jambing in Desert Storm, the Marines started using Springfield's that were being produced at the time.

    Springfield is a good choice for a 1998 type 1911 pattern pistol, a very good choice.
    Today's Springfield Armory Inc. has not made any M1911s, they like to have people "believe" they're the same US Government Springfield Armory, but they have never had any affiliation to the US Government owned Springfield Armory/Arsenal which closed permanently in 1968. In 1974, Robert Reese bought the rights to use the name the Springfield Armory, the real Springfield Armory is a National Historic Site/National Park located in Massachusetts.

    Springfield Armory National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  4. #19
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    I have to say I own one of these. I've even carried it. The trigger and thumb safety are much lighter and smoother then a Springfield armory i had previously. I'm extremely happy with it and enjoy shooting and carrying it. I did swap the crappy grips with a set of Hogue grips. which make it so much sweeter. If you want a decent govt. model at a low price Go for it.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Today's Springfield Armory Inc. has not made any M1911s, they like to have people "believe" they're the same US Government Springfield Armory, but they have never had any affiliation to the US Government owned Springfield Armory/Arsenal which closed permanently in 1968. In 1974, Robert Reese bought the rights to use the name the Springfield Armory, the real Springfield Armory is a National Historic Site/National Park located in Massachusetts.

    Springfield Armory National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)
    Nevertheless, they make excellent guns and I am proud to own an M1A from them and the GI model 1911. You're right though, they are a commercial company related to the original Springfield company by virtue of buying the rights to the name. Still an excellent company I have no problem doing business with.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Nevertheless, they make excellent guns and I am proud to own an M1A from them and the GI model 1911. You're right though, they are a commercial company related to the original Springfield company by virtue of buying the rights to the name. Still an excellent company I have no problem doing business with.
    You are absolutely correct, and I didn't say otherwise, they make an excellent product, as does Henry Repeating Arms Company, but for the two companies to imply direct lineage to the originals, it is not factually accurate.
    Last edited by OD*; May 16th, 2010 at 05:41 PM.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  7. #22
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    I don't know about today but when I was in college in the 60's and taking an advanced metals class, the school purchased a new electrical discharge machine made by Elox. The factory rep. told me Elox corp. was part of Colt Industries which was either owned by or part of Singer Sewing Machines. So if Singer was manufacturing 1911's they were probably Colt's. I could be wrong.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    I don't know about today but when I was in college in the 60's and taking an advanced metals class, the school purchased a new electrical discharge machine made by Elox. The factory rep. told me Elox corp. was part of Colt Industries which was either owned by or part of Singer Sewing Machines. So if Singer was manufacturing 1911's they were probably Colt's. I could be wrong.
    When the Singer M1911A1s (Singer didn't make M1911s either) were manufactured (1941) they were not part of Colt Industries, Colt Industries did not come into existence until 1964.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    I don't know about today but when I was in college in the 60's and taking an advanced metals class, the school purchased a new electrical discharge machine made by Elox. The factory rep. told me Elox corp. was part of Colt Industries which was either owned by or part of Singer Sewing Machines. So if Singer was manufacturing 1911's they were probably Colt's. I could be wrong.
    I don't think so. During that time, Colt was owned by a group of investors that owned other companies. I don't think Singer was one of them. During WWII Colt could not keep up with demand. No single company could. There were over a dozen companies besides Colt making 1911 A1 pistols for the war effort. Colt was also making machine guns. Besides Singer Sewing Machine Co, National Cash Register and several others made 1911 A1 pistols.

    The history of Colt is fascinating. attached is a short history from Colt's website.

    Colt's Manufacturing Company LLC
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    National Cash Register and several others made 1911 A1 pistols.
    The National Cash Register Company did not make M1911A1s. The makers were, Colt, Singer, Remington-Rand (not Remington Arms), Ithaca Gun Company and Union Switch & Signal.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  11. #26
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    Gonna talk you into it shot 1 on Friday for the 1st time was a great shooter!!!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    The National Cash Register Company did not make M1911A1s. The makers were, Colt, Singer, Remington-Rand (not Remington Arms), Ithaca Gun Company and Union Switch & Signal.
    Yes, I was writing from memory. NCR only made M1911's in WWI.

    Singer Sewing Machine Co. only made 500 1911 A1 in WWII and Springfield Armory made none.
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  13. #28
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    Nope, NCR didn't make any M1911s either.

    M1911s were manufactured by Colt, Springfield Armory, Remington-UMC and A. J. Savage was awarded a contract for 100,000 M1911s on 20 July, 1918, the contract was suspended on 4 December, 1918 with no completed pistols being accepted by the Ordnance Department.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Nope, NCR didn't make any M1911s either.

    M1911s were manufactured by Colt, Springfield Armory, Remington-UMC and A. J. Savage was awarded a contract for 100,000 M1911s on 20 July, 1918, the contract was suspended on 4 December, 1918 with no completed pistols being accepted by the Ordnance Department.
    The key word is were any made by other companies?

    Do you know of this person? John Caradimas? The M1911 Pistols Organization

    He apparently had something to do with this history article.

    The Sight's M1911 .45 ACP Page

    >Filling the projected needs meant that pistols would have to be made by contractors other than Colt. Thus orders were placed with Remington-UMC, Winchester, Burroughs Adding Machine Co., Lanston Monotype Machine Co., National Cash Register Co., A.J. Savage Munitions Co., Savage Arms Co., and two Canadian firms, Caron Brothers Mfg. Co., and North American Arms Co., Ltd. Of those firms, only Remington-UMC delivered any meaningful quantity (22,000 of 150,000 ordered). North American did make some pistols, but the total was probably less than 100.<

    Either way, I like reading history of Browning, Colt, Winchester and others.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    The key word is were any made by other companies?
    The key word is completed, and accepted by the US Ordnance Department, only Colt, Springfield Armory and Remington-UMC manufactured M1911s that were accepted by the US Ordnance Department.

    The hundred pistols manufactured by Canada's North American Arms Co. were never accepted by the US Ordnance Department, thus they were never stamped with any US inspectors marks and are not considered USGI pistols by collectors (or the US Government for that matter). If they would have been accepted by the US Ordnance Department, the 100 NAA pistols would be worth a great deal more than the 500 Singers which were accepted, and they are not.

    Do you know of this person? John Caradimas?
    Quite well actually, I moderate on John's board.

    only Remington-UMC delivered any meaningful quantity (22,000 of 150,000 ordered).
    Remington-UMC was awarded a contract for 500,000 pistols on March 21, 1918, replacing the previous contract. Total production was 21,676.

    Filling the projected needs meant that pistols would have to be made by contractors other than Colt. Thus orders were placed with Remington-UMC, Winchester, Burroughs Adding Machine Co., Lanston Monotype Machine Co., National Cash Register Co., A.J. Savage Munitions Co., Savage Arms Co., and two Canadian firms, Caron Brothers Mfg. Co., and North American Arms Co.,
    Of those mentioned (and the author forgot Springfield Armory), only Colt, SA & Remington-UMC delivered any completed M1911 pistols accepted by the US Ordnance Department.

    If you want correct information, facts, and numbers on US service pistols, I highly recommend the books by Charles W. Clawson.

    Ty Moore's http://coolgunsite.com/ is a much more accurate web site than is the The Sight's M1911 .45 ACP Page.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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