11 Reasons Not To Talk To The Police - Mark Sullivan, Palm Springs Defense Attorney - Page 3

11 Reasons Not To Talk To The Police - Mark Sullivan, Palm Springs Defense Attorney

This is a discussion on 11 Reasons Not To Talk To The Police - Mark Sullivan, Palm Springs Defense Attorney within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by 120mm You mean by the "Chicago Gullibility Project?" The obvious counter to that is Jon Burge and the "Chicago Torture Project". People ...

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Thread: 11 Reasons Not To Talk To The Police - Mark Sullivan, Palm Springs Defense Attorney

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You mean by the "Chicago Gullibility Project?"
    The obvious counter to that is Jon Burge and the "Chicago Torture Project".

    People go to jail for things they didn't do, sometimes for very long stretches.

    I'm sure there's somebody somewhere who thinks you need to go to jail... or worse. I suppose it doesn't matter if you end up there for something you didn't do.

    People are supposed to go to jail because they commit specific acts in violation of specific laws. Being a "bad" guy isn't a reason. Remember, SOMEBODY thinks YOU are a "bad" guy.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfl View Post
    In my last 70 years, I have never been a suspect in a criminal case.
    ...that you know of.

    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that police have any duty to tell you ANYTHING if you're not in custody. And if you are in custody, they have broad leeway to lie to you.

    In the past, lots of people who didn't commit any crime, who were not arrested for a crime and who had no idea they were a "person of interest" had FBI files. I'm 100% certain that the number who have attracted (not necessarily through any illegal activity) the attention of local police is VASTLY larger. It just takes being involved in some political activity of which the police or the local power structure do not approve.

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    Mn2Go come on got to do better than that you want to say something come on.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #34
    jfl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    ...that you know of.

    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that police have any duty to tell you ANYTHING if you're not in custody. And if you are in custody, they have broad leeway to lie to you.

    In the past, lots of people who didn't commit any crime, who were not arrested for a crime and who had no idea they were a "person of interest" had FBI files. I'm 100% certain that the number who have attracted (not necessarily through any illegal activity) the attention of local police is VASTLY larger. It just takes being involved in some political activity of which the police or the local power structure do not approve.
    Agreed !
    Having a CCW, belonging to a Motorcycle Club, flying 2-3 times a day to to a foreign country (Bahamas, when I was a charter pilot), having been a politically active republican, having filled numerous 4473, etc must have garnered me a thick FBI file.
    However, I see it besides the point of this thread; for me, if you are a "person of interest", you have some interaction with L.E. and you are aware of the situation, even if you are not sure why.
    Of course, not having any personal experience, and not being a lawyer, I could be totally wrong !
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by jfl
    In my last 70 years, I have never been a suspect in a criminal case.

    ...that you know of.


    Deanimator what has happened in your life that you are this paranoid and suspicious of the government? I think after 70 years on this earth the man would know if he was the suspect in a crime. I was an active LEO for 22 years from patrolman to Chief of Police and never maintained or saw files maintained of persons of interest in my jurisdiction or surounding jurisdictions because of who they were, or what political party they belonged to that in my opinion is absolute BS. Let me ask you this. Do you feel because of your activities or political affiliation you have an FBI file?

    As far as making comments like this on the open carry board I am truly sorry that people have been stopped and questioned, disarmed or accused of a crime by an LEO that did not understand the laws regarding this type of carry. But what question is the cop gonna ask that you are so afraid to answer "Did you know you are carrying a gun?".

    If for whatever reason you do not want to talk to the police during an investigation dont. Invoke your right to counsel and say nothing. Generally you are told that you are under arrest and what you are under arrest for or you have the right to leave. As has been stated over and over again there is nothing in the law that prevents the officer from lying to the suspect "We know you did it, we have a witness" but it goes back to my original statement if you are not guilty who cares what they say or ask that will make you confess to a crime you didnt commit. If they are going to charge you they will charge you whether you have counsel there or not.

    The people getting released from prison are being released because science has advanced enough that evidence found then can be retested under new and better guidelines. They were convicted because science and technology at that time could not prove otherwise not because someone did not neccesarily(sp) tell lied at their trial.

    We have got to apply common sense to some of this. If I know I am not guilty of a crime and I am questioned about it I will give a statement to the facts as I know them without the benifit of legal counsel. When and if the investigation turns accuseatory(sp) in nature I will stop and ask for an attorney that is common sense but to say that you will not answer any question without an attorney because you think you can get yourself in trouble for a crime that you did not commit, come on surely we as adults are smarter than that.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Deanimator what has happened in your life that you are this paranoid and suspicious of the government?
    History "happened" in my life:

    • J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI campaign against Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    • COINTELPRO
    • Ruby Ridge
    • Waco
    • institutionalized police torture in Chicago
    • the murder of Kathryn Johnston by the Atlanta PD and the attempted coverup
    • the murder of Michael Pleasance by the Chicago PD and the attempted coverup


    Which of those things DIDN'T happen? We all know that's not even scratching the surface.

    "Paranoia" is the term that some use to describe knowing inconvenient facts. What happened in your life to cause you to blindly trust the government?


    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I think after 70 years on this earth the man would know if he was the suspect in a crime.
    How would he kNOW? Has he checked to see if his name appears in any law enforcement files? And again, you didn't answer the question. Are they required to TELL him if he's not in custody? If IN custody, are they required to tell him the truth?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The people getting released from prison are being released because science has advanced enough that evidence found then can be retested under new and better guidelines. They were convicted because science and technology at that time could not prove otherwise not because someone did not neccesarily(sp) tell lied at their trial.
    People are often being released because they now have the ability to PROVE that somebody lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    When and if the investigation turns accuseatory(sp) in nature I will stop and ask for an attorney
    How'd that work for Richard Jewell? They let HIM unknowingly build their "case" against him, all the time in the naive belief that he was "helping" them.

    When you're being questioned by law enforcement, you have no idea what the REAL reason is or of the REAL motivations of the person(s) doing the questioning. Of course you could actually believe that it was Jewell who bombed the park and not Eric Rudolph, or maybe Jewell helped Rudolph without leaving any forensic evidence of having done so.

  8. #38
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    Ok let me see if I can follow along and answer some of the statements you put up here.
    I understand that history has occured in your life as it has occured in mine but I do not have the same outlook of the government is out to get me as you but that is your right to feel that way. I am not saying have blind trust in anything except god but use your common sense.
    There is a difference between brought in for questioning and being charged. If you are not charged with a crime you are free to go you dont have to cooperate with a damn thing. If you are charged you have to be told what you are charged with and taken before a judge and bond set period.
    As stated over and over. During the course of an investigation the officer may make statements or ask questions that are not true to induce the suspect to confese or cooperate, This does not mean he can say you are charged with a murder you did not commit without evidence for s**ts and giggles.
    If you have a specific case that you are talking about that shows a convicted felon was released because they now have the ability to prove someone lied in their testimony and not because of modern science would like to read it.
    Richard Jewel was a hero, a suspect, a person of interest, a hero again, and then sued the media for convicting him in the press. In a large case like that it is gonna happen but I see the government playing a smaller role than the media did in all of it but again we have different opinions on the matter.
    Waco and Ruby Ridge were incidents of the government overstepping their authority on a grand scale and since I lived in Naples, Idaho for a period of time and my father was a friend of Randy and Vicki Weaver those I will consede to you.
    Now since I have answered your question answer mine. Do you feel because of your activities or your polictical affiliations that somone has a file on you?
    Deanimator I think you and I have had similar discussions on here in the past. Not trying to start a war. No matter what I say it will not aleve your fears and suspicion of the government nor will your stated fears and suspicion be transferred to me. We will just have to agree to disagree.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Do you feel because of your activities or your polictical affiliations that somone has a file on you?
    I certainly can't rule it out. I once wrote an email to the Clinton White House regarding the racist motivations of gun control. Nothing threatening, but Bill doesn't take well to criticism. I've never bothered to check.

    Of course according to the current head of DHS, since I'm pro-gun, pro-Constitution, and a veteran, I'm a potential "domestic terrorist".

    I guarantee you, my local police department knows my name, because I've called to report potential crimes twice and once wrote to complain about a cop making impotent threats based on a gross misstatement of Ohio law.

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    LOL well Deanimator you just made a new friend. You should have told me you wrote to Bill in the White house. We got that SOB out of Arkansas and gave him to the world.
    As far as the PD having a file probably not, now knowing your name, "Oh hell its him calling again" dont let it bother you maybe it will keep them on their toes.
    I have read some articles from some Ohio newspapers which have allowed me to understand a little better some of your feelings. In one article the columnist explained how the disarmament of society would work. In another the paper expressed views of how "alledged" armed criminals were killed in the act of committing a felony and that was a bad thing? Dont remember the name of the paper but with articles like that floating around can see where some of this is coming from.
    We will just have to agree to disagree brother but I will tell you this I will fight to my dying breath to give you the right to say and do what you want.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Guys you talk about getting prison time and losing this and losing that are you guilty of something? If you have not committed a crime then you dont have to much to worry about.
    OMG you can not actually believe that. If so, what planet is that on? Or is it something you learned on CSI or LAW and ORDER? Unless you think losing $20,000 to $40,000 is nothing to worry about I have several personal experiences that prove what a crock that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    History "happened" in my life:

    • J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI campaign against Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    • COINTELPRO
    • Ruby Ridge
    • Waco
    • institutionalized police torture in Chicago
    • the murder of Kathryn Johnston by the Atlanta PD and the attempted coverup
    • the murder of Michael Pleasance by the Chicago PD and the attempted coverup


    Which of those things DIDN'T happen? We all know that's not even scratching the surface.
    Like the 140 plus murders during the reign of terror on PineRidge, or Wounded Knee II and Leonard Peltier
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #42
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    No longrider learned that by living CSI and Law and Order thank you very much but you continue to watch those shows and you might learn something.

    Look talk to the cops or not dont care. If I am charged with a crime I will have an attorney, in day to day dealing with the police, government or those guys whatever you want to call them I will continue to cooperate to the best of my ability.
    The AIM movement come on even Deanimator added some from this decade.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    No longrider learned that by living CSI and Law and Order thank you very much but you continue to watch those shows and you might learn something.
    Apparently a pretty sheltered life. My life experience is vastly different. Innocence is irrelevant in a criminal investgation. I don't watch TV. Sad to see that you think it is a viable source of information.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Look talk to the cops or not dont care. If I am charged with a crime I will have an attorney.
    Thats a direct contradiction to what you implied previously. Why the change when according to you
    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    if you have not committed a crime then you dont have to much to worry about.
    So which is it? As I said being innocent can cost you tens of thousands of dollars contrary to what you seem to think

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The AIM movement come on even Deanimator added some from this decade.
    As my relatives are still dead and wrongfully imprisoned you'll have to excuse that I think is current
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  14. #44
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    tacman605, just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get them.

    Would trust your freedom to police officers from a fine upstanding organization such as the New Orleans PD?

    And I know of LEOs so incompetent that they shouldn't be crossing guards.

    There is a reason the Founding Fathers put the 4th and 5th Amendments in the Constitution.

  15. #45
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    Longrider I have not contradicted anything I have said:

    From Post #35

    "If I know I am not guilty of a crime and I am questioned about it I will give a statement to the facts as I know them without the benifit of legal counsel. When and if the investigation turns accuseatory(sp) in nature I will stop and ask for an attorney that is common sense"
    There is a big difference between being questioned about an incident and being charged with a crime. If you are indeed CHARGED WITH A CRIME by all means get an attorney again that is common sense.
    Yep I guess my life as a cop for 22 years was sheltered. I never arrested anyone who did not commit a crime nor had to lie, cheat or plant evidence to get a conviction.
    AutoFan you are absolutely right I to know cops who had no business being cops but they did not work for me or would I let them work with me on any cases but it is the same in all walks of life from teachers to insurance salesman it is what makes the world go round. I am sure there are good and bad cops on the NOPD but dont know any would I trust them dont know but I would use the common sense that god gave me and what I have learned in life to make an informed decision about what to do.
    As has already been stated this can be argued to death if you dont want to talk to an LEO no matter what with an attorney great go for it, if you want to confess to killing JFK do whatever floats your boat each one of us has different knowledge and opinions on every matter and will handle different circumstances in different ways.
    LongRider if you feel your relatives were illegally prosecuted and inprisoned fight for them help them all you can, if they can prove their innocence and get out then sue the government for all they are worth. For those that died in the battles it is a great loss to your family and a nation then get an attorney and seek justice for those responsible.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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