Accidental or Negligent Discharge

This is a discussion on Accidental or Negligent Discharge within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I posted about this in another thread and was just wondering what the general consensus is on this. Is it acceptable to use the term ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: Accidental or Negligent Discharge

  1. #1
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    GTA Germany
    Posts
    322

    Question Accidental or Negligent Discharge

    I posted about this in another thread and was just wondering what the general consensus is on this. Is it acceptable to use the term accidental and negligent interchangeably when discussing the unintentional firing of a weapon? I understand it is just terminology and in the other thread it was stated how we call car accidents, accidents, when they are usually due to negligence. I stated-
    Quote Originally Posted by Bkrazy View Post
    If I am at fault I would rather tell my insurance company it was an accident, where as if I was not at fault then this was due to the other drivers negligence. The two terms while used interchangeably carry different connotations and upon hearing them elicit different reactions.
    I was just wondering how we as a community feel about this. Feel free to discuss and tell me I am nitpicking if I am. Perhaps next I will bring up the old Magazine vs Clip debate

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,142
    Quote Originally Posted by Bkrazy View Post
    Is it acceptable to use the term accidental and negligent interchangeably when discussing the unintentional firing of a weapon?
    'Accidental' means you didn't mean to do it.

    'Negligent' means one or more specific actions or failings of yours was the cause of the problem.

    IMO, they are absolutely NOT interchangeable, although our laughable tendency to whitewash and Clintonize reality means it gets called "accidental" or "unintended" nearly every time it's referenced by the media or the legal system. We'd get much further by calling a spade a spade. It's negligence when your avoidable actions cause a problem to occur, unintended though it might be. Basically, it comes down to how one was raised, whether truth meant just that, or whether it was allowed to mean something else.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; May 21st, 2010 at 03:01 AM. Reason: spelling
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7,154
    I would describe a true accidental discharge as a malfunction of a firearm such as when a firearm discharges while chambering a round. Any other discharge would fit into the negligent category since firearms do not just “go off” unless there is a finger on the trigger.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,079
    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I would describe a true accidental discharge as a malfunction of a firearm such as when a firearm discharges while chambering a round. Any other discharge would fit into the negligent category since firearms do not just “go off” unless there is a finger on the trigger.
    That's always been my understanding as well.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,006
    yes, finger on the trigger = ND
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,961
    Now you've done it. This will go on forever!
    Accident is result; negligence is cause. So a firearm accidently discharges due to negligence.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Main Entry: ac·ci·dent
    Pronunciation: \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall — more at chance
    Date: 14th century

    1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : chance <met by accident rather than by design>
    2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d —used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation
    3 : a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance <the accident of nationality>

    Main Entry: neg·li·gence
    Pronunciation: \ˈne-gli-jən(t)s\
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century

    1 a : the quality or state of being negligent b : failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances
    2 : an act or instance of being negligent


    The above are definitions for both. IMO They may both be nouns but I would say in a case of someone discharging a gun and didn't mean to I would say both are applicable.

    The accident happened when the person neglected all 5 rules of gun safety.

    Accident is the situation that happened. Negligence is what caused the accident. When you are describing the situation I would call it the accident or incident. When you described what happened I would call it a negligent discharge of a gun.

    make sense?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  9. #8
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    414
    I think this is one that could be argued semantics of the words all day long, and find people right on both sides.

    I personally prefer the term "negligent" because I think it has the right conotation. It's easy to become complacent when we think of accidents; as the saying goes "accident's happen". That makes it easier to not take respobsibility for the event or its prevention. Whereas, if we focus on the issue being negligence, there is an implied responsibility to prevent it.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  10. #9
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    GTA Germany
    Posts
    322
    I like where you are headed with that MSteve and that is kinda where I was hoping this would head. razor02097 gave us the definition of each word and in the act of unintentional discharge of a firearm they could both be the "proper" word.

    What would we as a gun community prefer that a report(er) refer to the unintentional discharge as? As I stated above they may mean close to the same thing, but they get a different response from people. "The guy had an accidental discharge while cleaning his weapon and shot himself". As opposed to "The guy had a negligent discharge while cleaning his gun and shot himself". Those two statements get a different reaction from me. I had originally wrote them in, but I took them out so as to get an honest response from you all.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,006
    both statements mean ND to me.
    accidental would be the second round from a single trigger pull.
    I would even go so far as to say a dropped weapon going off would be a ND.
    don't drop your gun.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    englewood, fl
    Posts
    1,751
    i cant believe the stuff guys will argue about here....

    arent most accidents caused by some sort of negligence?...it works either way..use what youre comfortable with or what works for the situation...anybody who knows anything baout it will be able to figure out what happened...

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i cant believe the stuff guys will argue about here....

    arent most accidents caused by some sort of negligence?...it works either way..use what youre comfortable with or what works for the situation...anybody who knows anything baout it will be able to figure out what happened...
    An accident caused by a defective part?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,006
    argue?
    LOL, looks like a calm discussion of ideas to me.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,711
    I prefer to differentiate between ADs (as being mechanical failures or truly unavoidable situations) and NDs (as being a failure of the operator to follow basic, fundamental procedures to prevent the discharge). To me, it isn't so much about the Webster's definition, as this is close to "jargon" within the community of gun owners/students of firearms. In our patois, ND and AD have different meanings; just as "head" means something extra to a Sailor/Marine than it does to anyone else...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  16. #15
    Member Array ak56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Carnation, Wa
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I would describe a true accidental discharge as a malfunction of a firearm such as when a firearm discharges while chambering a round. Any other discharge would fit into the negligent category since firearms do not just “go off” unless there is a finger on the trigger.
    This is how I've usually thought in terms of an accidental discharge, but for a negligent discharge, I prefer 'stupid is as stupid does'.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Negligent discharge may not be as appropriate as you think!
    By Tangle in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: August 27th, 2009, 03:56 PM
  2. Bad Press: Negligent Discharge
    By FLSquirrelHunter in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: March 6th, 2009, 08:34 AM
  3. A really bad negligent discharge at courthouse
    By Dakotaranger in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: January 23rd, 2008, 10:41 PM
  4. Negligent/Accidental Discharges?
    By Griblik in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: May 24th, 2007, 03:35 AM
  5. Negligent Discharge Story
    By acparmed in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: November 22nd, 2005, 10:57 AM

Search tags for this page

1911 accidental discharge

,

accidental discharge firearm arizona

,
accidental discharge laws ohio
,

accidental discharge of a firearm law ohio

,

cz 82 accidental discharge

,
definition of accidental discharge
,
montana laws on a accidental discharge of a weapon
,

negligent discharge arizona

,

negligent discharge definition

,
negligent discharge of a firearm in pa
,
pa accidental discharge law
,

ria 1911 discharge

Click on a term to search for related topics.