What is the best and safest method for conducting a FTF sale or trade involving firearms? I'm sure 99% of the folks on here are good honest people, but you never know when a bad apple might sneak in and try to pull a shady deal, or a full-fledged ripoff or worse.
With that in mind, how does one protect oneself, other than CC'ing and staying alert with heightened SA? I have a few ideas in mind, but feel free to chime in with others or critique mine.
1. Bring a friend, either with you or observing from a distance. (Not always practical or available)
2. Meet in a public place (Might have a problem flashing guns around in public)
3. Check in with someone via cell phone before and after the transaction
4. Make the sale/trade at a gun shop (assuming the owner would allow that, IDK)
Any other ideas?
Then that is a risk you take. A risk the weapon is stolen or has been used in a crime. A risk that you are going to get robbed. Personally I only do FTF with people I know.
Regarding #3, my wife used to sell handbags FTF in parking lots to customers from online and I would have her call me and leave her phone connected to mine while doing the transaction, and I could usually hear decently of what was going on. Most cell providers have free mobile-mobile so minutes shouldn't be an issue.
Regarding #2, I wouldn't go private either though. Last thing you want is a cop seeing you selling a gun in an alleyway. I highly doubt it will attract positive attention.
I called the gun shop that I frequent and was told they will not allow that in their store, nor would any other gun shop that they know of. Something about liability and legality. So #4 is out. They also cautioned me about "brandishing" a gun in a public place. Duh!
That's odd. You may want to check other shops. The ones local to me advertise it as a service. Here's how they do it:
First is a transfer between two local individuals. This is when a local person is selling a firearm to another and both parties want to ensure the transaction is conducted legally. This protects both parties involved.
To do this type of transfer, both parties must come into the store. The seller/owner will bring the gun in to be transferred and their identification. We will receive the gun from them and log it into our books and give them a receipt showing it has been removed from their name.
The buyer/receiver can come in at the same time as the seller or can come at a later time. The buyer will fill out the federal firearm purchase form and present current identification and, if applicable, permit to purchase. We will verify the background check and, upon successful completion, transfer the firearm to the new owner.
I always frequent my gun range to make transactions. Last firearm I transacted I met the gentleman in the range. We both shared a booth and fired the weapon. He packed up the gun and walked out a new and happy firearm owner, I walked out with one less gun and a bunch more $$$ in my pocket. I've also just met in the gun range parking lot make the transaction just because it's a little less conspicuous to see guns being handled in the parking lot of a range.
If I were to sell a gun FTF I would ask for a copy of the persons purchase or carry permit, license to verify identity, and write a bill of sale. Then I would keep this forever.
I sold a weapon to a guy (unknown to me) who contacted me on this forum. He had been around for a while, so I knew OF him. We had talked on the phone several times, and met half way from each other in a parking lot with lots of people around.
We exchanged driver's license and CCW permits (pre-copied), with a bill of sale. I felt pretty good about the situation...of course we were both armed.
When I see the CCW permit, I feel much better about the buyer's background...I would not sell to someone without one.
When I've done a FTF purchase, I:
1. Meet in a public location if possible.
2. Take someone with me, or if travelling alone, call someone before and after the transaction.
3. Leave a copy of all pertinent information (usually an e-mail, with the name, phone number, car description, firearm info, meeting info, etc.) on the dining room table.
4. Of course, I'm always armed.
As far as bill of sale, I'm more than willing to show my DL and CHP, but hesitant to provide a physical copy, having dealt with identity theft in the past (not that I suspect the seller's intent, but someone could steal my ID copies from him, you know?). I'm happy to complete a bill of sale, though.
If anything feels hinky, I either don't buy, or insist on a transfer at a local FFL (at my expense).
When I've done a FTF purchase, I: 1. Meet in a public location if possible.
2. Take someone with me, or if travelling alone, call someone before and after the transaction.
3. Leave a copy of all pertinent information (usually an e-mail, with the name, phone number, car description, firearm info, meeting info, etc.) on the dining room table.
4. Of course, I'm always armed.
As far as bill of sale, I'm more than willing to show my DL and CHP, but hesitant to provide a physical copy, having dealt with identity theft in the past (not that I suspect the seller's intent, but someone could steal my ID copies from him, you know?). I'm happy to complete a bill of sale, though.
If anything feels hinky, I either don't buy, or insist on a transfer at a local FFL (at my expense).
That's pretty much the way I had decided to do it. I'll be making an even trade this morning (my XD9 for his G19) and then I'll be purchasing a Colt 45 1911 SS at high noon. I'm leaving a detailed itinerary with my secretary and I'll call her before and after each transaction.
If I don't post here later today, you'll know things went south. :comeandgetsome:
Safest doesn't necessarily equate with practical or necessary.
Safest, of course, is to make an exchange at an FFL shop, where there are plenty of witnesses, likely video recording, etc. Of course, that puts it on record, involves all the FFL/govt paperwork that effectively "registers" that gun to you.
I've done a few FTF transfers without FFL. They have been done at my private (club) range, on a day when many people were there for various shooting competitions. We completed two copies of a bill of sale, to keep for personal records. The money was exchanged with a cashier's check. The exchange was done on a day when the bank was open, if it turned out problems arose (though, at that point, stopping the check would likely be the least of my problems). I documented where I'd be going, prior to my going, already knowing in advance the person's name and phone number and having spoken on the phone a couple times. If purchasing a gun, I would already have checked the viability of the serial number via the state police service for this. Beyond these steps and bringing a friend, there isn't much else you can do. If you're going to be attacked, you'll be attacked. Be circumspect and prepared to defend. Precautions such as being armed and doing the transaction in an active, public place should generally be enough.
FTF for me usually entails meeting in a public place near to a gun dealer etc. Almost always have CCW exchanges and a bill of sale to protect both parties. My state does not require an FFL in an owner to owner transaction. Be careful out there!
I have done many ftf transactions with people met through ads or over the internet and at gun shows both buying and selling. I always meet in a public place. It has never been a problem to let someone handle a gun in the car. I also always look at their license and make sure they're from ohio and talk to them a few minutes. I have only walked away from one purchase because the guy said he got the gun from a friend to pay back a debt because I got a funny vibe from him and suspected it might be stolen. I have never had a problem with anyone misrepresenting an item or trying any other tricks. It might also be a good policy to get a receipt which I have been too lax with, especially with the quick handshake deals at gunshows.
I have sold FTF on three occasions. Twice the sale involved firearms. I made arrangements to meet in a shopping center parking lot at the far end away from prying eyes. We both provided ID and I had a bill of sale ready with model no. and serial no.
I remained armed during the transaction and everything went smoothly.
The third time I sold some spare mags, no firearms. We met at a local road junction and exchanged mags for money. No bill of sale or ID requirerd.
I pack heat, and I bring a buddy whose also packing heat.-big part of it.
Go to a public place, thats not packed (golf course parking lot works great) during the day. Put the item to be sold in a case and pass it along. 5 dollar gun rags work great for these Look into the case to verify if receiving.
I always have a bill of sale and require CCW permit, or a permit to purchase if in one of those states.
#1 Not even close. I have done 30-40 FTF transactions and the ONLY time I bailed is when I saw someone lurking in the parking lot. I show up alone, at a well lit, lot of traffic, spot, and you do the same. Any 'tricky, sneaky boy' crap and I am gone! Your results may differ.
I sold a gun to another member of THR last year. We met in a parking lot I gave him the gun he gave me the cash and he showed me a bunch of really nice 1911s. No IDs, no permits, I don't even know his real name. Selling a firearm privately is unregulated in Colorado I'm not going to add any regulations to it.
I buy, sell and trade firearms often, several this week. I did not get to nearly 70 yoa without being able to read people. I ask if they are Texas residents and not a felon. If I feel the least bit uncertain about any individual, I say sorry, I am leaving and sack up my marbles and scoot. I do not meet at my residence or business address, but in a public place where we can be around other people. I do not hesitate to handle or let buyer/seller handle firearm, but do not try and attract attention. I usually do not ask to see Drivers License or CHL unless I feel he/she does not meet age requirements.
This is how I do it and it has worked for a long time. We do not want to get to the point in Texas where we have to go to an FFL to transfer ownership of a gun. I was a FFL holder for many years, but strongly feel that it is my individual right to sell or buy any firearm at any time. I meet mostly great people in gun deals--and have made some long term friends who have precipitated other gun sales and purchases. Don't be paranoid, just careful.
I also ship long guns intrastate when distance is a factor. It is a freedom I am allowed and I still firmly believe I should be able to ship handguns, but not use some FFL/gun shop owner firends who are happy to do this for a small fee.
I hope to meet you soon in a gun deal that benefits us both--Gun folks are mostly really good folks.
Bear
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